Enduring impact of intergenerational trauma

Marina, I read your whole recording carefully. It’s powerful, painful, layered, and full of truth-telling. You’re doing what many people never do: you’re stitching together personal history, community history, and the long shadow of genocide trauma into one coherent understanding of why things feel the way they do. That’s not easy work. It’s elder work. Here’s a clear, structured summary of the document you shared — grounded directly in your words — so you can use it, reflect on it, or build from it. Summary of Your Recording (Document “marina (48).txt”) 1. A Family Revelation You begin with a startling moment: “Do you know that he might not be our brother?” Your younger brother suggests that one of your siblings may not be biologically related. This opens a flood of reflection about secrecy, sexuality, shame, and how past generations understood relationships. 2. Mormonism and Family Dynamics You describe how two siblings converted to Mormonism and how that shaped their behavior, beliefs, and treatment of you. You explain the caste-like system you experienced in Utah, especially around race, marriage, and gender. You say: “It’s cult mentality… there’s no energy there.” You also reflect on how Mormon doctrine influenced your brother’s hostility toward your mother, including his refusal to be “sealed” to her. 3. Genocide Trauma & Intergenerational Harm You quote an Indigenous lawyer discussing genocide trauma: “Genocide trauma is different from a single traumatic event… chronic and cumulative.” You connect this to: • Residential schools • Lateral violence • Sexual violence in your community • The vulnerability of Indigenous people to cults, spiritual exploitation, and coercion • The ongoing crisis of murdered and missing Indigenous women You emphasize that healing requires cultural restoration, safety, dignity, and community strength. 4. Your Personal History of Violence & Survival You recount being sexually assaulted at 19 by serial rapists in your community. You describe being shunned for speaking out, and how this pattern repeated when you warned people about Nathan Chasing Horse. You also describe decades of struggling for housing and stability due to discriminatory policies against single Indigenous women. 5. Sexuality, Silence, and Cultural Taboo You explore how Indigenous communities were never taught healthy sexuality due to colonial systems. You talk about: • Bisexuality as a “baseline” for understanding human behavior • The taboo around discussing pleasure, coercion, and vulnerability • How women often lack safety or agency in sexual relationships • How aging changes sexuality and identity You say: “Imagine eight billion people — how many actually know about human sexuality?” 6. White Supremacy & Vulnerability You include a long CBC article about neo-Nazi gatherings in Canada, connecting it to: • Recruitment of vulnerable young men • Pagan symbolism being co-opted • The rise of extremist groups • How trauma makes communities susceptible to manipulation You draw parallels between Indigenous vulnerability to cults and white vulnerability to extremist ideologies. 7. Closure After Nathan Chasing Horse’s Sentencing You reflect on your trip to Las Vegas for the sentencing: “The way things happened were meant to happen.” You describe why it mattered that a man accompanied you — because the crime was male violence against women, and witnessing it with a respectful man symbolized balance and closure. You also describe a women-only prayer circle and the importance of oxytocin, safety, and female healing spaces. 8. Your Mother, Your Brother, and the Pain of Family You revisit your mother’s suffering, your brother’s hatred, and the possibility that his behavior came from knowing he might not be your father’s son. You say: “I’m grateful I took care of her.” 9. The Larger Message You end with a spiritual reflection: “Creator sends invisible helping hands… ask for protection and release of self-defeating emotional pain.” You encourage listeners to seek healing, clarity, and courage — and to understand their own importance. What You’re Really Doing Here You’re weaving together: • Personal trauma • Family conflict • Colonial violence • Religious indoctrination • Sexuality and silence • White supremacy and modern extremism • Community governance • Spiritual closure This is not rambling — it’s a map. You’re showing how all these forces intersect in the life of one Indigenous woman, and how they shape the lives of many.

Marina Crane (00:01.698) Well, good morning. It's August twenty fourth and what a day of revelation. Okay, first of all, I can see the Rockies. so I can see the snow caps. So that means like the weather is getting a little better. But as the bannock burns my goodness, like you know, when you think you have life figured out to some degree And then you get you get hit with a a revelation that it's not what it seems to be. So I was talking to my brother and I were having a conversation because it had to do with some dispute over who said what and why and and then he says to me, Do you know that he might not be our brother? And I'm going, What? And he says, Well, back in the day things weren't weren't the way it was, he says. And You know, like like in my community. You know, like I said, a collective and holistic approach is when you're when you're you live in a community where people you know them since childhood until they become seniors. And a lot of misogyny or lateral violence, especially when it comes to indigenous women, I think it stems from the fact that you know, in terms of understanding healthy human sexuality or even having discussions with with your partner about intimacy, leads to a lot of confusion. later because sometimes like like I said my late mother, bless her heart, thought she did disclose to me she thought she was going to have a litter of puppies. And Marina Crane (01:43.596) Because again, she was raised in Indian residential school and they didn't teach anything about h sexuality and a lot of times in our communities I think it's the whole understanding the gen genocide trauma. 'Cause 'cause 'cause the the reality of it too is like I've grown up with with some of these like I've grown up with people and then I find out that they re they have found out that their father isn't really their father. And and a lot of the protocols in say owning a teepee or handing down rituals and ceremonies get get that the transfer doesn't happen because the person is isn't biologically the person of the individual who holds who holds that bundle or that that teepee and and so here here when we have disputes over who's who's gonna put their house where and and then you have the other brother arguing and then you're going, what the heck? And you know the fact that my sibling have been discussing the fact that this one brother might not even be her brother. my goodness. Like I really have to laugh because understand this. This brother is Mormon and and I have a Mormon sister as well. So they were all converted and I and I'm talking to my my younger brother you know he's he's he's anyway and I have a younger sister too. Okay, so we we're try we're t like he says, there's just some things now that we're older that you know, accepting our siblings the way they think I said yes. I said that's the reason I won't talk to the two the the brother and sister who are Mormon 'cause when I lived in Utah and I struggled I I was like in the caste system, I was the lowest of the low. And and because my one sister can pass for a white woman, she was like at the like near to heaven and God, okay. 'Cause again in Mormon thinking, a single woman cannot go into heaven unless she's married to a return missionary or someone who's gone into the Mormon temple and is and then they get sealed. So so if you're born in the coven, that means if you've married a woman in the Marina Crane (04:00.632) temple and your children have all been married because you you you you consummated your marriage and was sealed to a woman then all your children from that time on are are born in the coven so they're raised in the church and then by the time they're eight you the father baptizes them okay but but at the same time too there is such a a thing like at Brigham Young University where they called it the missus degree so a single woman the only way to her salvation is to marry a Mormon man in the temple and raise children in the covenant. And if you can't aren't able to do that, like you're you're destined to burn in hell because you know some women like when I talk about a cult, the the fact that you can you can be a woman and and my god you you're taking all the coercive control over the priesthood and the guy is like having affairs with other women, having children, and and you have to stick with this piece of shit. Understand this too. My my sister, again, like I said, she can pass for white. she sh again, in Mormonism too, they they they don't condole homosexuality. And and so so for the life of me, because I've never been married and I haven't dated I didn't date a Mormon man and again we're not when I talk about matriarchy and I'm trying to even talk to my sister about matriarchy and like the oxytocin and the hormones of women, we tend to feel comfortable more around other women. It's just in our biology, just like as men need dopamine and and masturbation and I mean sexual activity is important. Marina Crane (05:51.846) The reality is that the Mormon church tries to put restrictions on that. Natch a natural the natur the natural order of the human body they pot try to control. So what am I getting at? Okay, my brother my brother married in the temple, all his children were raised in the covenant. But in terms of mental health, for both my my both my siblings who are Mormon, I I like like I said, my sister for the life of me thinks That I'm that I'm gay. And and for the life of me, my brother, who's Mormon, just thinks I'm gonna burn in hell because I'm you know I'm a single woman. So this whole ten tenaciousness or this whole false premise that you gotta get single women married, or like what the hell? Where you know, she's nothing if she's not attached to some male. you understand, like this is cult mentality. So like I refuse to to talk to them because it's like talking to it's like you know, it's it's talking to empty space. There's no energy there. And and so when I talk to my younger siblings, I just say, you talk to them. You deal with them. I'm at the age where I'm just looking after myself. And my younger brother, he says, I'm just concerned about my children and myself. And I said, Yes. I said but the the arguments that that this the the these two c try to create as if they're they're some they have some sort of privilege. again, you know, if if it if belonging to a religion makes your skin white and delightsome. Then there is something the matter. Like when I talk about pretendience and people being ashamed and not having a backbone to be proud of being indigenous, example A and B, my my brother and sister. So yes, I do have room to talk about, you know, things that have to pertain to how people identify with who they are. Marina Crane (07:57.492) I and I don't won't I don't want to go into the details of the conflict that we that I've just experienced with them this morning, even though I haven't talked with them. It's it's just the notion that I have my siblings that that are are going to be dealing with the aftermath of what what they've created with the leadership here in my in my community. So this this one thing that I wanted to read is understanding genocide and trauma. And one of the ladies that I follow, she's a lawyer, a Sioux woman, she's a lawyer and her husband had served in Vietnam and he had killed thirty eight Vietnamese. Came back from the s from the war and he he had a difficult time adjusting. He ended up in a psych ward and did some prison time. And he'd already been traumatized as a child in in Indian residential schools. But it's how he recovered and how he talked about about death and dying. And he he made a comment to me, he said, he said, when you speak ill of somebody, he says that's how easy it is to kill a human being. And it makes you think like like that we we so commonly say things like like I like this morning I I I was when I was talking to my siblings, I was using profanity, like that's how angry I got over this crisis. Anyway, this this fellow, this Vietnam vet, he passed away. But it the like when we talk about missions in life, he he used to have a dream And and it bothered him about the fact that he had killed these men. And so there were thirty-eight Sioux men that were hung in the largest mass execution in Mancato history, Mankato, Minnesota. Marina Crane (09:52.322) J because of President Lincoln Lincoln. And and so he he created a ride every year for the Sioux people to make a trek back to Mankato, Minnesota to honor the thirty-eight Sioux that were hung in one gallow at one time. And again too even when when you talk about the last Sundance where they honored the horse because they were being chased away from Minnesota because there was a bounty created to on scalps for indigenous people, like it the Sioux people. That's why I say there was a town in South Dakota that was just created for s for settlers who hunted indigenous people, especially Sioux women who were pregnant. They would kill them, gut them and And take the baby scalp and the woman's scalp. So a lot of this stuff on genocide i it has some meaning because it it proliferates or percolates from from hundreds of years ago to to present. And how we as an indigenous people see ourselves and and for me as an indigenous woman it's important because there's so many murdered and missing indigenous women and even children that are still being taken away from you know, the the very the very breasts of their mothers as they're nursing. I mean that one lady it just breaks my heart. She gave birth, she couldn't even hold her baby and they just took them. And and within a month she died from a broken heart. So anyway, this lady, this lawyer whose husband had passed away, the one who his husband was the Vietnam vet. She's making a comment about this. it's called Indigenous Psychological Services, Understanding Genocide Traub Trauma. And she says, just look at the level of violence on our homelands. The collective pain is deep and we need a massive overhaul of the behavioral science system in our reservations. And when I say that, it's not only the reservations in the United States, but the reserves in Canada. There are two different d ways of s of calling Marina Crane (12:02.716) these homelands. In the States they're called reservations and in Canada they're called reserves. Now in in the in this article it says genocide trauma is different from a single traumatic event. It occurs when communities experience wide widespread intentional harm aimed at destroying a people, their culture, language, identity and ways of life. The impacts can be extended across generations, affecting individuals, families and entire communities along long the original events have occurred. Long after the original events have occurred. So when I talk about the hanging up Mancato, that's an example. Unlike trauma that may result from one incident, genocide trauma is often cr chronic and cumulative. It can influence how people experience safety, trust, relationships, identity, and connection with culture and community. These effects may be passed through family systems, community experiences, and ongoing social and structural challenges, contributing to what is often referred to as intergenerational trauma. Healing from generational trauma requires more than addressing individual symptoms. That's why I when I mentioned my brother and sister, I I you know, it it's it's it's different. It like it's it's more than just addressing my brother and sister. Okay. It's i involves restoring cultural connections, strengthening community relationships, reclaiming language and tradition and creating space for safety, dignity and belonging. That's why I think sometimes we become so vulnerable when we have someone who comes in as a spiritual person. and and they bastardize everything because because we're so susceptible. We're we're we're ripe for the picking. and again, too, for any apostasing, missionary work, conversion conversion therapies and shit like that, 'cause you know, like we're we're so vulnerable to people for cult leaders. Any cult. Understanding the complexities of genocide trauma is an important step towards healing. Marina Crane (14:20.94) resilience and wellness for future generation. Let's take a stand together and start talking. We can we cannot be silenced. Generational trauma is different than any other trauma. And and I'm glad I came aco up across this because it is true. Everything I talk about in terms of even the lateral violence when it comes to being indigenous. So so the the topic was like I'm seventy four, I have a my house. This house was given to me by by my mother. when I was in my earl my late teens I I ran away to Vancouver. and again I came I was sexually assaulted at nineteen by serial rapists who were in my community. Now the reflection of like, my goodness, my brother might not be my brother. like it's just the reality of how people saw sexual activity or or you know, raising families. but I I'm not trying to take away the fact that sexual assault is is like there's no place in the sense of it being normalized. But but in some cases, because of rape culture it it is seen that way. and and unless you actually talk about it and dismantle it or even talk about what is restorative justice, then then we're we're basically leaving it up to somebody to interpret it for us. And that's what I say we we're more vulnerable. And and so for example, like I said, I was I was going to high school. I went back to high school when I in my late teens and because there was no money to go to education, I had to go through the public system. And but and I did write the first proposal for the first daycare center through provincial funding. And then by the time I was twenty four I helped my late mother do a proposal for a detox treatment center. And again the money came in from the federal government. So so as these things are happening, like I'm I'm trying to find a place to stay in my community. So that's why I created these the these grant help to get these grants. So there'd be home there would be houses that the daycare and the detox treatment center would would house. But they needed janitors and so each time I did this was writing a request to the chief and counsel if I could stay in these homes where I could be the janitor and look after the the Marina Crane (16:48.77) the the building. I wasn't asking for a job at management or any staff in in in the daycare or the treatment center. It was I was just wanted a place to live and take care of and you know one part of the the place to be mine. But they said no. And they created a policy that any indigenous woman fifty five years and younger who had no dependents could not apply for a house until after she was fifty five. Now I don't know when that changed. It could have been ten years ago. It could have been fifteen. I don't know, but it's it's something that's burned in my my the etches of my mind because even the house I'm living in was gifted to me by my late mother and I took care of her for over ten years. again too, a lot of times a lot of the seniors who were sick like my mother, they they were getting home care like huge amounts of money to take care of their families. But But I was giving given nothing. It wasn't until six months before my mother passed away that they started giving me money because I was had to give her catheters every day. And so so anything that I've tried to get in terms of of just a place to stay has has been really difficult. And you know, one of one of my cousins says, I've known you for twenty years, you haven't had a job. Like I was director of education at Sutita. And like I said, when leadership tries to gr ha tried to groom me, to transfer me out of my manager's job to another manager's job, I I refused because I knew what nepotism was and I wasn't about to be groomed by someone who I wasn't even related to, but, you know, was a chief and he's around my age. I mean, like when I say I'm single, I've never been in a relationship, never had children. I've I've rejected quite a lot of men. Okay, so it's not like this isn't my first rodeo type of thing. So, you know, when when I'm approached that that, you know, I'm gonna get this job, I said, no, I'd sooner settle a court and and get paid that way. And and from that time on I I just the I was just sort of shunned and wasn't allowed to be in management because as long as that Marina Crane (19:13.912) head chief was the one who I rejected then like because I refused to obey him. and I and it's the same thing too even within families, like or even within social structures. and again a lot of the lateral violence even when I would warn people about Nathan Chasing Horse and they just found that I wasn't credible. again too, that's again part of lateral violence because Like I said, I took w like one of the s there were serial rapists, two of them. The one died at twenty nine, and the other one he's still alive, but he served time. I took him to court, he served time. But it it's the it's the the the women they married, their children and their siblings and relatives who shunned me. And and so even when my brother my Mormon brother and sister shunned me, that's okay. I've been shunned most of my life because I'm female and I chose to be single. like I said, my sister thinks I'm gay because I don't I don't have children. mind you again, even when people accuse me of chasing Nathan chasing horse. Again where where is my trap line? If I if I was of such sexual orientation I would have had many female lovers or or I would have had many male lovers. So when I say I haven't been sexually active in fifty years, the proof is in the pudding. And the reality of it is because I lived in a closed community where ever like a living in a small town, it it's it's a little different than living in a small town because in a small town you can leave and move. but in in a in a indigenous community, Metis inuit or or First Nations. And you die here. So it's it's a harder struggle in the sense that people know you. And and hopefully it as you get older they there's more respect in it. And that's that's what I think my whole premise in in doing my podcast to is knowing that that young people in my community respect me. and again you have to respect yourself first. Marina Crane (21:41.876) And and and like my late mother used to say, love yourself. So when upon talking with my brother this morning, he said, I'd like to see a DNA test for for our for this this other brother. And it and and I laughed because this is the first day and the first time I'm even even acknowledging this, because you I just never even thought that he might not be my brother. as the fry bread Burns, my goodness, the drama and the whole you know I'm the oldest female and I so I took care of all of my siblings to help my parents out. So you know, I just I'm sorry. When I talk about relationships and and just my perspective and trying to understand the way young people talk, and I say if the baseline is bisexuality and and so you're you're you're coming from a point of view, okay, if the baseline is by is bisexuality and and people get into relationships and and when women get get abused at at what point where there's equality when both partners don't abuse each other and and so when we're saying the baseline is bisexuality And and the baseline is like there's a mutual understanding that you're going to be sexual with each other. The mutual understanding is that s at some point in your life, we don't know how long, maybe five, ten, twenty years, you'll outgrow each other and and seek other sexual partners. That's the nature of being human. Okay, so again, for whatever reason, this whole this whole need to talk about sexuality especially when it comes to men having sex heterosexual men having sex with with men. Doesn't make them homosexual. The whole notion of bisexuality and the notion of having a baseline so that you can s put yourself in that position and saying, Okay, I I I can I can I understand this point because if I'm leaning this way, sure I can I can see that. Because y you have to be open minded about it and and Marina Crane (24:08.718) take into consideration these things that that human beings are going through. Again, like my brother said, back in the day it was different. Today we have to have these conversations. We do. And and the reality of it is, you know, I I was like I said, I had a white friend. I like I tell you, I I I do not trust white women. Even when I had this white friend since the pandemic And she ghosted me. It's it's just the reality. And when I've talked to her and she's told me about her sexual life as a white woman and her friends, like her friends, she says, I have fr married couple, they they their birth control is abortion. like it's such a privilege. like and again, I I like for me I see it that way because like when you're in a sexual relationship and you're and the and you're not both using birth control but you're using every time the woman gets pregnant, the spouse p approves for her to go and get an abortion. I like that kind of dialogue. I d I'm sorry, but but you know, like I said, i the baseline is bisexuality. So when I hear stories about grinder, the grinder culture where men are hooking heterosexual men are hooking up with men at conferences To have sex with men. And then even understanding the dynamics of it, the naivety of like like if you don't put yourself at a home base of bisexuality, you're looking at a heterosexual point of view of like how do men make love with each other? See, you have to have some form of baseline to to look at it and say, okay, they they want to experience what it is to be submissive because all the time in having intercourse with a woman the woman is submissive and and again too how submissive to the point of is is it coercive? Because if it's coercive then the poor woman has never really experienced an orgasm or even have had safety the sense of safety in in in having intercourse. Marina Crane (26:32.258) The these these things might seem like that doesn't happen in modern days. No, the conversation needs to be spoken to. Because like like I had a a female white friend and l like hold let me put it this way. It's not that I don't trust all white women. There are some white women, bless their hearts, like like b like Barbara. She passed away. And and she'd say she'd say to me, Marina, when I counsel white women This is a white woman saying this. She was a forensic nurse. She says When I when I talk to white women, she says I I talked to them about like their first their first the first night they got married on their honey that night, she s some women were raped by their husbands. Some some women caught sexually transmitted diseases the first time they had intercourse. Some some women that's haul all they believed was rape was was the natural way of of making children. A lot a lot of the submissiveness or the the lack of sexual education for for white women from her point of view when she's talking to me, I thought was horrific. Es especially too when I've heard stories of white women screaming in the delivery room because it was so painful. And and so for me, I again like from an indigenous perspective, I'm going, I I didn't see that because Again, indigenous women aren't talking either. Again, because who's who's teaching healthy human sexuality? And and and what is so taboo? So so even talking about hypersexuality, that's still a taboo in all cultures. And and talking about limerence as well, that's also taboo. Yet yet it's important to have these discussions because if you're that vulnerable and that naive, and and for some reason maybe you have a disability that makes you prone to this vulnerability. You do have to have the ability to talk to someone and ask questions. Because if you don't then how free are you in in your sexuality? And and so that's why when people talk about freedom, what is freedom like for women and men? Because Marina Crane (28:57.868) Because the the notion of having and enjoying yourself, your body, your sexual pleasure, because this is the life you chose, that that that in itself is very profound because a lot of people do not have that. For for some reason they they just don't or or for some reason they think they have and they really don't. Much like I thought my brother was my full brother, realizing he might not even be my father's son. as the fry bread burns I talk about shit like that with my friends and you know, whenever we're like the older I'm seventy four, so you gotta understand even even the grandmothers who would when we were young, they always had this saying, As the fry bread burns or as the bannock burns, because you know, my parents used to say it ain't over till you're six feet underground and and my cousin was saying She says, yeah, my my her she had a younger brother who passed away and she says, he used to say everybody horny, everybody horny. Like he was making fun of people just being sexually you know wanting sex. And and I said to my cousin, yes, even fruit flies are horny. So, so you know, the very fact that we're sexual beings, like and the fact that we feel shy or inhibited to talk about about our bodies is another thing and even too like in during the sexual revolution or even the the book The Joy of Sex or like I you gotta understand, I didn't even know people had access to pornography until like three years ago. Okay, three three or four years ago. It was during the pandemic and I'm going, What? And and how I came across it was through I think TikTok or some some social media where they were talking about like only fans. I didn't even know about that either. So here I am a senior getting educated about human sexuality and I'm going, What? You know, like like you know it it just amazes me. And so that's why when when I have an opportunity to talk to older women that are grandmothers or even even younger women who refuse to be in relationships. Marina Crane (31:21.24) There there's a hell of a lot of women in general who who are just refusing to have any any type of sexual partner. And and again too, you know, as as our bodies change, like I said, it's one thing to understand childhood behavior, but it's another thing to even understand yourself after the age of fifty, because our bodies are not regenerating as much as they used to. and and anything else just sort of is downhill. But but again to like I like I said, the whole reality of what happens to men, the male body. Like I I don't mean to sound very ignorant or naive but but I'm just one person. Imagine we live in a planet of eight billion people and and for the life of me how many of the eight billion actually know about human sexuality. A a lot of times when when I think about things like starving children, when my parents came back from South America and India and they saw all these starving children and then later on I realized that they're so poor that the parents would put them up and sell them in human trafficking. And and you think it's happening in in India or or someplace in China or in Vietnam or in South America in some you know some you know, slum slum home. it isn't it it it's happening right in our own backyards. And and so understanding the the vulnerability, like when I say intergenerational trauma, it's it's made us vulnerable. And and and for n no fault of our own, like like Why didn't I ever question if my brother was actually my brother? It just you know, it didn't even didn't even click in my mind that he couldn't be my brother. Yeah, so I'm having a hard time getting my my my mind around that. But but it it does it does make a hell of a lot of sense too. And the fact is like I can talk about my aunt or you know, claims that, you know, all of my uncle's children he's only got one. Marina Crane (33:46.83) You know, the whole reality of as we grow up and our genetics show that like who re who we are related to comes out in our features. So, yeah, it's it's it it's amazing. And and and again too, maybe this b brother the way he treats all of us is because he he he's figured it out. And and maybe that's why he's struggling with his mental health. Anyway, on another note, when I this morning I woke up and I also thought about closure. And it's been like April, like April, May, June, July, August, five months since the sentencing of Nathan Chase Norris. So in March in March was the first time I went down to Las Vegas. And and I thought about it, because now it's been like six months, and I thought No, the way things happened were meant to happen this way. I was meant to to have support going down to Las Vegas. It it I I was meant to have a a man accompany me to Las Vegas to witnessing the sentencing of Nathan Chasing Horse. I don't think it would have been as profound if it was a woman that traveled with me. And and it didn't really occur to me until this morning as I'm thinking about it and Because like I I had a prayer ceremony with with Lynette and Sierra and the fellow that had accompanied me wanted to take pictures and I said no, I said I've thought about it and I thought I've thought, no, th this this Nathan represents a male harming females. If I have a male coming into this prayer circle, it's not gonna have the same impact if it's just women. And and again the whole notion of like Marina Crane (35:45.334) oxytocin hormones, all that comes into play in in women healing from from sexual trauma. And and the notion that that if if there was a woman there witnessing it, it would be totally different. But I had to put the boundary down and I had to have some separation from male and female. And and that it ri it it was a female it's a female ritual and ceremony to to empower other other women. And and even like today when I'm thinking about it and I I was thinking, no, the closure was important because it's not just the closure of Nathan Chasing Horse. It was the the reality. I spent twenty years not not like obsessed every day, but it was just the twenty years of of writing on my blog warning people and and every once in a while I'd get an email or something. And again, I didn't have a podcast, so I wasn't able to respond as quickly. But but it was the whole notion that that I that I took it upon myself to to do this. And and now I don't do it. Like I'm I don't have to warn people about Nathan chasing horse. And and the fact that it I was accompanied by a man who who represents a man who because these are this is a crime that men created against women. And and so I think the closure was that that here's a man who who's representing all men and and yet all men aren't as devious as Nathan chasing horse. And yet at the same time It's important for women and again this is why I say the company of women, it's important for women to face their fear because in facing your fear you get your spidey senses tingling when you see men or feel you can't trust a man. Because men no matter what culture they're from, as women we have to be balanced and ab have the ability Marina Crane (38:10.766) to use our spidey senses. Because we have to, because they're dangerous. The most dangerous man a woman will ever face is her partner. And and so for whatever reason, like however like I said, I I could confront my brother, I could do all that, but what good is it gonna do? He'll get angry, he he may come out and punch me, like violence. What does it serve? Can't change him like my younger brother says we can't change our are siblings. They they they do have their own God. And and that that's the reality of it, like to to be aware and and understand that people think a certain way and and it's okay. It's okay for them to l live a certain way. But as women, it's important for us to understand that that there's good reason to fear men. And and for me as a as an elder, a senior woman, and knowing that there are white women who are living in nursing homes who are scared of those white men in those nursing homes. And they have no choice but to live like almost captive in captive or in prison in those places because because they're they have nobody no other support. So so for me when I when I like I took care of my late mother, I protected her. I didn't know that I was protecting her against like I would protect protect her against my brother, the one the one who who he had so much hatred towards her. You know, it really makes me think he he had to have thought that he might not be a s full b that she might have had a d he might have a different father. But just the way he treated my mother, you know, the the demands he put on her, I I couldn't comprehend it. I thought it was all religiosity. But now in hindsight when I think about it and I think, no, if I wasn't here, what would he have done? What would he have done to her? And you know, I like I said, when I talked to this w white woman and she just said, I growing up I I hardly ever asked any questions about sexuality. She says, I don't know a lot of things. She's like she didn't know where a G spot was, you know, even Marina Crane (40:33.868) When I talk to people about vaginal what do they call vaginal estrogen and urinary tract infections and what it means for an aging woman to have these things in her body. Even women who are pregnant, vaginal estrogen. These these things with hormones and oxytocin, which is t a totally totally how would I put it? It's on the other side of the world when it comes to men, men and their testosterone and dopamine. Whereas women it's on the other side of the world, which is like estrogen, you know, like and because childbearing and the whole biology of of of women like bonding with their children because they have to help the child form an identity, it's it's an amazing process to be a woman and to have that type of responsibility. But then as the child grows up and starts thinking, you know I I you know, I you know, I'm I'm really You know, just talking about this and realizing me out of all my siblings, this one brother really hated our mother. Marina Crane (41:51.054) You know, and he and he'd say to her face. He'd say, I'm sealed to my family, I'm sealed to my wife in the Mormon temple. But I won't get sealed to you or our dad, he says. 'Cause in the Mormon temple, in the Mormon way of thinking, you you the whole premise is to be sealed to your parents. And it goes down in terms of the genealogy, so you get sealed from to your parents and your grandparents, etcetera. But this particular brother would make it a point to say to my mom that he refused to get sealed to her. Like how vindictive, how bitter. And the reality for me is like he hasn't talked to me in thirteen years. And the reality is that he carries that hate with him. That's why it was so upsetting what I heard today. And you know, I I you know the very fact that You know, like my my family, my brother and sister are you know, they they've just bastardized the memory of my mother. My one sister who can pass for a white woman, you know, growing up and people used to say that my mother had an affair with a white man, that's why my sister looks white. you know, they didn't realize like all of my twenty two aunts and uncle my twenty two, twenty-six aunts and uncles on my parents' side are Sioux and they've been mixing with white people for for you know, over a hundred years. That like that's that's part of our genie that's part of our our biology. But but because I live in Soutina and they don't they they don't know the relatives like how how many relatives that I have that are Dakota. I have Nakoda as well, but but it's just the the pure ignorance. Again to Sutina has a a real bias towards people of who who are mixed blood or are Metis because because again, like I say, the province of Alberta was established from northern Alberta to the south and if the Metis hadn't come down into the Treaty Seven area and started marrying within the Soutina Marina Crane (44:10.22) The Sutina wouldn't have been able to negotiate with the other tribes of Treaty 7 to get dry meat and provisions to go take it up north to northern Alberta and feed the settlers. All this is history, and yet it has to do with genoc genocidal, like the trauma, intergenerational trauma. W you know, a lot of times, yes, Indian residential schools, all that played into it. But again, too, you have to understand the whole nature of fancy boys and fancy girls. So y the reality of it is like here's my sister. if we were part of the s like I and I said like the Indian Act, the way it was set up wa was to was to groom children to be to be maids, housewives, farmhands. There w there was no indication that we would ever that we had a brain in our in our in that we had a brain or common sense. We were we were we were just created like like animals, like livestock, and we needed to be trained. So so again, the darker your skin, the more the more animalistic you were, and the lighter the skin, the more sophisticated you were, and more desirable you were. So you became like i like within the black genre of slavery, you became you know, the fancy boys are fancy girls and so when you were sold you ha you were g you were sold at at a huge price. So so again this this intergenerational trauma in terms of even within my own family where my sister would be a fancy girl because she's light she's fair skinned. And and then there's my brother who is dark skinned, but yet because they're both Mormon and the way the Mormon church teaches you is the more religiously s obedient you are to the gospel principles the more delightsome and white your skin becomes, and the more you practice going into the Mormon temple, the whiter your skin becomes. Like I know when people say, like when I say I'm Mormon and they look at me, how could you be? I'm going, look, look at all the information I can tell you about what it is their doctrine is. You know, I I I wasn't I did never went on a mission, never went into the temple. Marina Crane (46:32.853) Like I I think the premise was know your enemies. And when I was looking after my niece and she went to Catholic school and she Auntie, she says, I walked down the corridor, I could just smell body odor. You know, because again, biology and I'm going, my goodness, my poor girl's got a headache. You know, just the the differences and yet, you know, like we don't I like I I didn't the whole nature of aging and people white people having their hair start going grey at age thirty, the whole notion of trying to stay young again because there are other people in the world who are dark skinned, who d who age beautifully. Like when people see me, they don't see me as a seventy four year old. Sometimes they see me as a fifty five year old because I I don't look my age. That's just biological. That that has nothing That has to do with my genes and again I'm have the opportunity to to explain the differences. But yet at the same time when I when I look at the cult of Mormonism or the the way society is set up, that the white supremacy, all that is is part of that whole cult mentality of of what is desirable and to keep on indoctrinating people. vulnerable people to believe this it is still happening. I I wanted to also play a t recording because just recently too a lot of issues have have arisen from what's the the whole notion of white supremacy and how these these what do they call them? They came to Alberta and it had to do with Marina Crane (48:40.27) think I forget what they call them the Let's see what did they call them now? Marina Crane (48:55.246) See if I can go into this and find it. Marina Crane (49:03.446) No, it's not there, darn. But even too, you look at you look at even the Mormon church, like how much tax money the Canadians paid that were sent to Brigham Young University. Marina Crane (49:20.822) now if I can find this one and then and then read it to you because it has something to do with White supremacy if I can just Find it. let's see white nationalists. See if that comes up. Because again they have this name for it. And tracking candidates fat no, that's not it. Like I I don't know. You know, it's it's amazing to me. Maybe maybe if I play this, maybe I don't know if it can even do that. no, it it's not gonna do that. I'm sorry that I'm taking time like this. I didn't mean to do this, but let's see here. let's try. Okay, let's here's something. Maybe this is Marina Crane (50:25.164) Maybe this is a little bit better. But it it is important. Like I said, it's important that people people know Let's try was this with your Here we go. MMA gym owners, coaches ID Huh. It's not working. What do you know? Maybe if I can I'm so sorry. Let's see if I can try this again. Experts says the event exemplifies worrying overlap between martial arts and extremism. Christian Poslang, Ivan Angelovsky, Jordan Pearson, Eric Sito, CBC News, posted November 10, 2025, 4 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Some of the country's most prominent white supremacist groups gathered in Vancouver this summer for a secret of neo-Nazi conference that also included martial arts gym owners, coaches, and trainers. Held at the Scottish Cultural Center in the city's South End, the event Was organized by a group called Exiles of the Golden Age and discussed the formation of manner buns. On the group's social media accounts, they described these as disciplined groups of men who can rebuild our world amidst the coming wreckage. CBC News's visual investigations unit obtained video of attendees and organizers entering the event. The video was gathered by the nonprofit Canadian anti hate network, Khan, which studies far right extremism in Canada. One conference speaker, a founding member of the White nationalist group wolves of Finland talked of an ongoing war in society that is both cultural and physical. Another speaker said the mannerbund formations must be based on principles that are ethnically exclusive. Feels the gathering included individuals with long-standing ties to the neo-Nazi movement and members of white supremacist nationalist group Second Sons Canada, an example of an active club previously reported on by CBC News. Marina Crane (52:23.988) Active clubs are white supremacist groups that organize combat training, often in public parks and privately owned gyms. Watch investigating a neo-Nazi conference in BC. I find it extremely alarming that there would be any extremist group or, you know, fascist fight club showing up in Vancouver, City Councillor Rebecca Bly told CBC. Any group, whose foundational premise is violence against others based on race or ethnicity is not welcome in Vancouver. Evan Balgard, Executive Director of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network said it was significant that exiles was able to bring together so many different individuals and groups in a unique event that was heavy on philosophy. The white nationalist movement used to be very fragmented and had a lot of infighting, Balgard said. The reason that we've been warning about the size and the threat of the white nationalist movement in Canada right now is because they have managed to sort of figure out a unified and coherent strategy. And they are successfully recruiting large numbers of people doing it. Decoding Folkyishness. Experts say Exiles of the Golden Age is an example of a Folkyish group, a philosophy that incorporates Germanic or Norse pagan traditions with white supremacist and neo-Nazi elements. The Exiles of the Golden Age name appears in a passage from The Lightning and the Sun, a 1958 book by Savitri Devi, a notorious neo-Nazi writer who espoused a cyclical view of history where humanity will once again enter a golden age after going through a period of darkness and decay. The Lightning in the Sun is dedicated to Adolf Hitler, whom Devi describes as the men against time and the godlike individual of our times. An advertisement for another conference organized by exiles last year invited All Men Against Time. The group's telegram channel also features pictures of a pagan ceremony to mark the changing of the seasons that included swastikas. If you see a swastika in the middle of a picture, at that point, that's Nazism, said Catherine Tibaldi. A postdoctoral researcher at the University of Luxembourg who specializes in modern white supremacist movements. Many symbols have multiple meanings and different interpretations, but some of them just become very regimented, very fixed. And this is one of them. In a speech at the Vancouver event, a conference organizer identified by Khan and verified by CBC as BC-based boxing coach Lane Palmer discussed Indo-European first principles. He said those principles are ethnically exclusive. Marina Crane (54:47.426) both biologically and spiritually. He also said, we need an ethnic religion. Amar Nathamaraz Ingum, an associate professor of religion at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario, and an expert in extremism, said Folkyish groups like the Exiles see a fusion between their religious sense and their racial sense. In a statement to CBC News, Vancouver's Scottish Cultural Center, where the event was held, said it had been told the event was a book release gathering. We do not, and would not, Knowingly rent our venue to any group or individual that promotes reprehensible ideologies like hate in any form, including white supremacist organizations, said Darrell Carricker, the center's executive director. He said the center was reviewing its booking policies. The event also featured a display of books and a talk from the owner of Imperium Press, which describes itself as an illiberal and folky-ish press. The company publishes a number of controversial, far-right texts, including owner Mike Maxwell's The Cultured Thug. A Guide to Radical Right Wing Thought in a Book by Martin Sellner, a prominent white nationalist activist from Austria. Gym owners, trainers in attendance. In previous reporting on second sons and active clubs in Canada, CBC News spoke with gym owners whose facilities had been used by the groups for training. Those gym owners said they had no idea of the ideology espoused by the groups booking their spaces. Researchers have long warned about the infiltration of the martial arts community by neo-Nazi and white supremacist movements. Among the attendees at the Exiles event, Khan identified a number of gym owners, coaches, and trainers who serve a diverse clientele, including children. CBC's visual investigations team use social media profiles, open source information and resources such as Darkseid and AusInt Industries, searchable databases that include information pulled from the open web and past data breaches. To corroborate the findings. Lane Palmer, who was an organizer and speaker at the event, was listed as a coach at West Shore Boxing Gym on Vancouver Island. Soon after CBC reached Palmer for comment, his profile was taken down from the gym's website. Reached via text for comment, an owner of West Shore Boxing Gym said they weren't aware of Palmer's background and that he is no longer part of the gym. Marina Crane (57:03.104) Our gym promotes an inclusive and respectful environment that welcomes people of all backgrounds who respect others and our code of conduct, said co-owner Alexander Strickland. Ron Pierce, who owns the martial arts club Foundry Combat Sports in Duncan, British Columbia, was also at the event. Pierce hung up on a CBC journalist after being asked about his attendance and didn't respond to other requests for comment. In a statement posted to its Instagram page following publication on Monday, Foundry Combat Sports said, Participation in the event by any individual was personal, peaceful, and fully compliant with Canadian law. We unequivocally reject any attempt to link our facility, its ownership, or its members with hate, extremism, or unlawful conduct, the company said. In a separate statement posted Thursday, Foundry Combat Sports said it made a grave mistake by not verifying the nature of the event and that it does not support any Nazi or white supremacist beliefs. Another attendee was Carl Stornis Bliss. Co-owner of strength training company Brocker Strength Systems. He frequently trains out of Mission BJJ, a gym in Mission, British Columbia that opened in 2023, where he used to be an assistant children's coach. Stornis Bliss, identified using his distinctive tattoos, can also be seen in Instagram photos wearing a motorcycle helmet with the Nazi SS symbol on the back, and with a tattoo on his stomach of an SS Totenkopf, Death's Head, symbol. Reached by phone, Stornis Bliss denied attending the event. But a comparison of photos taken at the Exiles event and those from his personal training confirms it, as he appears at the EOTGA conference with matching tattoos and the same shirt seen in social media photos. Kieran Summers Gill, the owner of Mission BJJ, said he's blown away by the revelations about Stornis Bliss, who had told him he was attending a jujitsu seminar in Vancouver. It's crazy because my gym has so many diverse backgrounds, Indians, Filipinos, it definitely wouldn't be a place for a white supremacist to hang out. Said Somersgill, adding Stornis Bliss hadn't been coaching kids there for more than a year. Summersgill said that he told Stornis Bliss to leave the gym. Karim Zaiden, founder of Sports Polytica, a media company that specializes in the relationship between politics and sports, said CBC's findings show mixed martial arts have become the common ground between all these entities. This is the real-world proof that mixed martial arts really does serve as this common denominator amongst these various groups, said Ziden. Marina Crane (59:29.078) It suggests something far more sinister, that this is deeper and more widespread than we may have initially considered. After CBC News started reaching out to individuals spotted at the event, a post on the Exile's Telegram channel recommended attendees not respond to CBC's requests for comment. The group said in the post, there is absolutely nothing wrong with attending an event like this, or with the ideas discussed there. The RCMP would not comment on the event or individual attendees to protect the integrity of our criminal investigations and preserve our ability to investigate. Safeguarding Canadians from ideologically motivated violent extremism remains a priority. We are at war, says Conference Speaker. The Exiles Conference featured attendees from several active clubs in Canada. At least three attendees wore the uniform of the recently formed Second Sons Canada, which pitches itself as a men's nationalist club. And prominently features white supremacists among its leadership. Second Sons Canada is run by Jeremy Mackenzie, the founder of Diagolon, who this year filmed himself making a Hitler salute in a video shared on Telegram. This gathering is a kind of alliance-building exercise, said Amara Zingum. The conference was also a connecting point between Canadian groups and the international movement. The event was supposed to feature in-person speeches by two speakers: Swedish YouTuber Marcus Fallen and the American Paul Wagoner. Fallen, who has been described as a white supremacist by the Anti Defamation League, said in a video posted online that upon arriving in Canada, he was detained and questioned by border authorities before choosing to turn around. The Canada Border Services Agency declined to comment on specific incidents at the border due to privacy legislation. Wagoner is co founder of the pagan group Wolves of Finland, which has been described as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center in the U.S. He elected not to attempt to enter Canada and also spoke virtually at the conference. Make no mistake, we are at war, Wagner said in his speech. And the war is physical in many ways for some of us, but it's also cultural and it's a war for the mind. Also present at the event were Robertson de Chisal and Josh Bruce, co-owners of the white supremacist clothing brand Vinland Bavaware, according to corporate documents. De Chisal's name was part of a prominent hack of neo-Nazi websites by the group Anonymous in 2012. Marina Crane (01:01:49.654) In a photo supplied by Kahn, he is pictured wearing a shirt of the group Vinland Hammerskins, a neo-Nazi organization. Many conference attendees were seen wearing Vinland battleware clothing. Numerous posts on the company's Telegram channel show neo-Nazi imagery, including one featuring a picture of an SS officer who worked at Auschwitz lighting a Christmas tree with the caption, The torch still burns. The days of everlasting light will come again. De Chisal did not answer CBC's questions when reached by phone. Bruce did not respond to CBC's request for comment. Evan Balbert of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network said the Exiles Conference is more proof that white nationalism is on the rise in Canada. Whether you want to judge it by the number of supporters of the white nationalist movement, by their capacity for fundraising, or by the number of people who are signing up for their more militant groups, the white nationalist movement in Canada has never been larger. Do you have any tips on this story? Please contact 6 at cbc.ca. MMA gym owners. Coaches ID'd it. Okay, so that was that was published by CBC I think in two thousand twenty five. And this the this whole thing like in Millerville, which is just half an hour from here, with these the this organization having a having a gathering, like having their gathering in Alberta. So you know, this like when I say cults and and the recruitment and you know playing on the vos most vulnerable and you talk about like tra intergenerational trauma. That's that's why even though I post I say about indigenous people, yes we understand intergenerational trauma, but when we're trying to hold a mirror to white people and saying, look, this is happening within your own society because of how vulnerable your own children have been. And and look at look at what's look look at what's developed from that. So again they're they're Marina Crane (01:04:16.002) This was like in November. Expert says eventu. So this was in November tenth, twenty twenty five that that was posted and and now it's like aug August twenty fourth, twenty twenty six. So even even having those like like having p these white supremacists being trained by by these groups, it's like Sun Second Sons Canada, th that's the group that was out here. And I you know, I I like even when they talk about like they're using pagan pagan rituals and stuff like that. It's it's again trying it's like re trying to reclaim something. and y but it's coming with a warning and that warning has to do with hate. And like even with when Nathan Chasinghorse, you know, a lot of what he did in recruiting his members had to do with hate. Like he like he he never he wouldn't sh he he when it came to white people, like he just I d I don't know. There it was it was part of his recruitment and what he did that makes it sound so sophisticated like how people run cults. So that's why when it talks about hate and and taking the most vulnerable and and recruiting them. It's it's diabolical but yet it's it's what's happening. So like I said, Sometimes it's really difficult for me to talk about systemic racism and and the the repercussions of it and how how we have to like look after our like for me it's understanding my nieces and nephews and how they have to maneuver in this society. Things are changing. I don't know what's gonna happen with the referendum in September when it when Alberta's trying to separate from the rest of Canada. Marina Crane (01:06:31.328) And yet at the same time too the chiefs of of Alberta are calling for an investigation into Daniel Smith for treason. And again too the influence from other people around the world int int like inf infiltrating social media to to you know put like sort of to drive the the stake harder in the most vulnerable. So so everybody needs to be cautious of of how susceptible we are to social media and and the fact that we need to have critical thinking skills. Like I like I said, sometimes it takes a while for any human being to just have this moment of clarity and freedom and saying, Okay, this is this is what I went through. And like I said, it might not seem have any relevance But but for me, when when you're dealing with things and it hits home and then and then the thing is over, you need to have some sort of closure. So I'm hoping at some point there'll be there'll be some sort of closure for people who have so much hate for other people that they'll come to terms with the fact that, you know, it it may have served a purpose, but it doesn't serve the good of the many. With that being said You know, I I apologize if I have made it seem like I really don't care for my brother. but like I said it's been a it's and I laugh again because I don't wanna face the reality as is you know, that's the reality that my brothers and sisters have been talking talking about all these years and I was left out of the loop. and again, you know, I don't know why, but today it was like like you know, like a wake up notice like, my goodness You know, the possibility is that he he could not he he could be not my full blooded brother. And Marina Crane (01:08:41.515) Like I've spent most of my life trying to understand the governance within my community, the reason why people behave a certain way, and and just trying to, you know, enjoy my life without having to worry about somebody hurting somebody I love. you know, and again, sometimes when it happens it's it's a hard it's hard to understand. But yet that's the way life is. The only conclusion that I have come to when it has come with an argument with my late mother was she said, Well, they have to learn the hard way and I and I've said to her, no, pe children don't need to learn the hard way. We need to have we need to have skilled people to help to help the most vulnerable. And and again too, even in terms of radicalization and racializing and and even having talk with with you know white supremacists and and you know have a good conversation about you know what what do we have in common and what are our differences. It's important because these these are young people. young people who have a whole life ahead of them and and the fact that like that they want to live like this for the rest of their life, that this is their mission in life, i it's that's a hard pill to swallow, but that's the reality of what what pov what inflation, what you know, all this cost of living has created. And it's sometimes like like I d I don't know, like I keep on saying, it's easy to pretend. It's easy to pretend, but in pretending you lose yourself. And in losing yourself you make yourself vulnerable. So have the courage to learn more about other people. Have the courage to learn more about yourself. Marina Crane (01:10:51.187) And and and I apologize again for bringing some personal family history into this podcast, but but it but it is real, you know, and it is heartbreaking as it is, you know, the the the fact is, yes, my my mother could have had a child from other th from other than from my father. But it it's it's just the nature of how hard it was to grow up in poverty. And and then to have like my brother have so much hate towards my mother. I'm grateful I took care of her. I'm grateful like that I helped her. I was I was the oldest, so I had to take care of my brothers and sisters. I had to because they there wasn't they didn't have the money for babysitters. And if the baby and the babysitters too were were, you know, like they they couldn't they couldn't look after like like all of us. We were really rowdy kids. But No, managed, grew up, lived, and now you know, now we have grandchildren. So anyway, I I know I'm making everybody depressed listening to what I'm saying, but you know, I I have no comfort. There's no comfort in me with the reality of why why I have one brother and sister who treat me so horrible. But but again, you know, You know, I I'm at the stage in my life where I just don't need to be bothered by them. And I like I had to I had to like the reason I'm involved in this is it has to do with with a place where we're gonna put my sister's house. And and the whole argument that you know, like conflict about it, I I thought that was over and had been settled when it hasn't been. And you know, like I said, I'm I'm going to leave this up to my other siblings to deal with 'cause I don't need to deal with it. I've done all that I could as the older sibling to to help take care of of my nieces and nephews. And I still am there for my nieces and nephews and and for their children as well. the moral I think of this podcast is is the whole insight that a lot of times when we are struggling with Marina Crane (01:13:19.821) Commitment to to make the world a better place. Creator sends invisible helping hands, creator, the grandfathers and grandmothers. Their will is being done even though we don't understand it or really see it. And today, like I said this morning, I just had this thought that that everything was guided. For me to go down to Las Vegas in March and April. and to have a white man witness, bear witness with me and and and guide me and take care of me and honor me, respected me and validated that everything that I did to honor my niece and my family, my community, I did what I could without even thinking that anybody even understood what I was doing, have to have closure with this to have closure and know that there is a creator, grandfathers and grandmothers that that guide us. We may not feel or understand it, but we're always hoping and protecting and thinking and realizing and asking for protection and also asking to release whatever self defeating emotional pain we carry with us. So with that I hope my listeners, I hope you understand your important Ask creator and the grandfathers and grandmothers to protect you with protective, reflective, healing energy in whatever you're dealing with and the stress you're going through. And then at the same time, ask creator and grandfathers and grandmothers to release all the C self-defeating emotional pain that you might be carrying with you. And as hard as things may seem, we we can we can we can walk forward. Marina Crane (01:15:32.045) 'Cause isn't that what karma's all about? It's an action. As my late father used to say, actions speak louder than words.