White Supremacist, Trauma, Violence, Ideology, & Unresolved Pain passing to the next generation.

Thank you for sharing all of that. What comes through most strongly is not just your concern about white supremacist groups, but your concern about how trauma, violence, ideology, and unresolved pain can be passed from one generation to the next. A few themes stood out to me: First, you're drawing a connection between organized hate groups and trauma. You're not excusing hateful behavior. Rather, you're asking why some people become drawn to movements that promise belonging, identity, certainty, and someone to blame. Many researchers who study extremist movements have found that recruitment often exploits loneliness, grievance, alienation, and a desire for community. That does not make the ideology acceptable, but it helps explain why people can be vulnerable to it. Second, you're describing the reality of intergenerational trauma as something lived, not theoretical. Throughout your story about your relatives, your friend, the 38-year-old woman, your niece, and your own memories, you keep returning to the same question: what happens when people experience profound harm and never receive the support necessary to heal? You see the consequences showing up as anger, addiction, violence, fear, learned helplessness, fractured relationships, and difficulty trusting others. Third, I noticed your reaction to the stories around Truth and Reconciliation Day. You said several times that you thought you were handling the material, but then found yourself awake in the middle of the night feeling trapped. That's actually a very human response. Sometimes we can discuss painful subjects intellectually during the day, but our emotional and nervous systems process them later. Listening to accounts of abuse, violence, residential schools, trafficking, or hate can affect people deeply, especially when the stories connect to their own lives, family histories, or identities. What also struck me was your description of the woman who stayed at your house. While you were frustrated, frightened, and exhausted by the experience, underneath that I also hear sadness. You seem to be grieving for what she might have become if she had received safety, support, and healing earlier in life. At the same time, you recognized that compassion does not mean abandoning boundaries. Wanting someone to leave your home because you felt unsafe is a legitimate boundary. One thing I would gently add is that it is often helpful to separate three different things: The trauma a person experienced. The behaviors they engage in today. Their responsibility for those behaviors. Trauma can help explain harmful behavior, but it does not remove responsibility for violence or abuse. That distinction allows us to have compassion for suffering while still protecting ourselves and others. I also hear something very personal in what you said about feeling judged because you're Indigenous. The story about being stranded in the United States and being asked whether you were Black or Indian clearly stayed with you. Experiences like that can shape how safe or unsafe the world feels. When people repeatedly encounter prejudice, it makes sense that they develop heightened awareness of danger and exclusion. Toward the end, I noticed you coming back to hope. Despite all the anger and hurt you described, you repeatedly mentioned younger Indigenous people, influencers, advocates, survivors, and people who are consciously trying to heal and change the narrative. That seems important. You weren't only talking about trauma. You were also talking about resilience. In many ways, your central message seemed to be: People inherit stories, wounds, beliefs, and patterns from previous generations, but they are not doomed to repeat them. Healing requires awareness, accountability, boundaries, and a willingness to question the narratives we've been given. That's a difficult message, but it's also a hopeful one. And if I'm hearing you correctly, part of what you're wrestling with right now is not just the existence of hate groups or intergenerational trauma, but the emotional burden of witnessing it over and over, in different forms, across decades of your life. That is a heavy thing to carry. The fact that these stories stayed with you afterward suggests they touched something deeply personal, not merely political or historical.

Marina Crane (00:01.122) Good morning, October third. This is my third attempt to do this podcast. Hopefully tech technical wise it'll work. But I'm trying to talk about things that I found on the internet and there's a CBC one. Former soldier exposes how Canadian white supremacist group recruit members. Second Sons Canada Incorporates as business requires members to sign significality contract. Okay, so hold on, we'll see what happens. Canada describes itself as a men's nationalist club dedicated to fitness and preserving Canada's heritage, but a former military member who attempted to join the group says he only learned about its true nature, which includes adoration for Hitler, neo-Nazis, and hatred for Jews when he met them in person. Not only was the prospective member told to sign a non-disclosure agreement, NDA, that would ban him from revealing confidential information about the group, the recruit said he was also searched for recording devices and asked to say racial slurs as a test. They advertise themselves as one thing, said the former CAF member, who CBC News is not naming due to concerns for his personal safety and legal retribution. And then as soon as I met them, the sheets were pulled down and it was a whole other thing that was disgusting. He said much of the in-person meeting was about how Jewish people were evil and how Hitler's philosophy was genius. They really, really wanted to know my knowledge of their version of racial ideology history and how it influences today's society, he said. It seems like they really want to brainwash their new candidates into hatred. And that really put me off. The former CAF members' account is the first glimpse CBC has gotten into the inner workings of the Second Sons in-person recruitment process. Watch what a former soldier learned about what Second Sons really believes. Previous reporting by CBC's visual investigations team aligns with the source's information. The group itself maintains a carefully curated image on its official social media platforms. Its leaders, meanwhile, have praised Hitler and the Nazi Party, said they welcome neo-Nazis into their ranks and call for mass deportations at gunpoint and the execution of Canadian politicians while talking on personal podcasts and live streams. The organization is clearly anxious about individuals coming forward, speaking to the press or others about their activities, said Richard Moon, Law Foundation Chair at the College of Law, University of Saskatchewan, focusing on freedom of expression. Marina Crane (02:26.048) I think there's a real risk that an NDA like this might have a chilling effect on someone's speech, and particularly on their speaking to the media or the legal authorities about activity they may be concerned about as unlawful. Since forming in 2024, Second Sons has expanded rapidly. There are chapters across the country. The group is part of what's known as the Active Club Movement, a decentralized assortment of male-focused groups promoting white supremacist ideals. The movement has grown globally in recent years. Increasingly moving from online forums to real-world training groups and anti-immigration protests. Second Sons even folded Quebec-based Frontenac AC, one of Canada's most prominent active clubs, into their group. Earlier this year, a government report said the active club movement posed a risk of extreme violence. Over the weekend, Second Sons held a demonstration at TKM Lup's T. E. Shawebum Reserve near a former residential school. Also appearing on a Kamloops overpass with a banner that read, Got Bones. The demonstration was condemned by community members and Prime Minister Mark Carney. The cowardly act that took place at TKM Lup's TE Showwepham yesterday is abhorrent. It has no place in this country. My thoughts are with everyone who are shaken and hurt by this disgusting display of hate, Carney wrote in an ex-post Monday. The RCMP say they are taking the matter seriously and We'll continue to engage the group as part of our response and current ongoing investigation. On Tuesday, Second Sons President Jeremy Mackenzie reshared a doctored image to Telegram showing Second Sons members holding the Got Bones banner in front of the Auschwitz death camp, where the Nazis killed nearly one million Jews. White supremacist media organization. The nondisclosure agreement says Second Sons is federally registered as a numbered company, 16130623 Canada Inc. Corporate documents found in the Federal Registry of Businesses list Jeremy Mackenzie as director, along with Alex Vrend and Alex Cabana as shareholders. Mackenzie is an Afghan War veteran and the founder and president of Second Sons and its predecessor, Diagolin. RCMP have described Diagolin as an extremist, militia-like organization. Vend is a longtime associate of Mackenzie and the vice president of Second Sons. Cabana has not been as openly associated with Second Sons as Mackenzie and Vrend. Marina Crane (04:47.362) He is an Afghan War veteran who was affiliated with Veterans for Freedom, an advocacy group that was formed by central figures in the self-described Freedom Convoy protests that overtook downtown Ottawa in the winter of 2022. It's not clear how much revenue the corporation has generated because required annual financial filings for the company in 2025 and 2026 are listed as overdue. The Second Sun's website notes that people trying to join the group must pay an application fee, with a $20 monthly commitment if they are accepted. In live streams on the video sharing platform Rumble, Brent has claimed that the group's leadership don't get paid themselves and rely on income from subscriptions by fans. A post in the Second Sun's public telegram channel says they are working to set up a support shop for the group. But experts say there are questions about whether the company, which describes itself in the NDA as a media organization that creates, develops, and publishes content, should be allowed to operate due to the nature of its activities. Calling for the execution of a politician is not a legitimate activity of any company, let alone a media company, said Richard LeBlanc, professor of governance, law, and ethics at York University, who reviewed the documents that CBC located. The leaders of Second Sons appear to be aware of the rules that a registered company must follow, for example, human rights laws that bend discrimination based on race, and how the organization skirts them. Addressing a viewer question about the group's admission process in a September 2025 livestream. Friend said, Second Sons is an officially registered organization. I can't speak to what Second Sons policy is, but in Canada, it is illegal to discriminate based on immutable characteristics like race, gender, disability, etc. Can I make that more clear for you? We are an organization that takes members based on meritocracy. Can you read between the lines? LeBlanc says if a company is engaging in overly broad NDAs, hate speech, excessive anonymity, or face coverings, That doesn't insulate the company and the founders and the officers and directors and employees of said company from liability and possibly prosecution. The company's regulatory compliance practices may lead to its failure before anything else. The Government of Canada's website states that it has sent a notice of intent to dissolve the corporation if it does not file its financial statements immediately. They were very cautious. The former CAF member said he was looking to belong to a community that espoused patriotic views. Marina Crane (07:12.225) So he decided to apply after seeing Second Sun's content online. The Second Sun's website states that it welcomes former members of the Armed Forces if they can show that they are no longer serving. Recently, the group's training, which initially focused on mixed martial arts sparring, has taken on a more military-style feel, including cot carrying, army crawls, and other drills. The source said he did a virtual interview over messaging app Telegram. Following that, they agreed to set up a meeting in Ontario. They had me pull my shirt down to make sure I wasn't wearing a wire, he said. They had me leave my phone face up on the table to show I wasn't recording them. They were very cautious that I would leave first and not follow them. He said they also spoke about training in hand-to-hand combat skills to prepare for potential violent situations. Vrend, the vice president, has publicly advocated for brutally beating counter-protesters. Referring to a 2025 incident where a man grabbed a flag from the leader of a Canada First. Demonstration, Brent said the response should have included the leader spearing the men in the face, cross-checking him and punching and kicking him in the head. Is he arrested? Yes. Does he catch a charge? Yes. Is it the end of his life? No. Does that immediately become a symbol of resistance for all Canadians? Yes. CBC source said he did not learn the names of the men he met. Undercover applicant. The application process mirrors what happened when two La Praisa journalists, Tristan Peliquin and Vincent Poirier, applied to join Second Sons over the summer, under a false name. The existence of the NDA was first reported by La Presa. CBC obtained it independently. Shortly after applying, the two La Praisa journalists received an email that included 17 questions asking for their name, family history in Canada, and political beliefs. From there, They were messaged on Telegram by someone from Second Sons, who turned out to be the former leader of Frontenac Active Club, Sean Bove MacDonald, who has referred to himself online as a Nazi and praised Hitler. He was trying to have more information on why we wanted to join Second Sons. And after that, in the first 24 hours, he asked us for a meetup. We were surprised, Poirier told CBC News. Second Sons also sent a nondisclosure agreement to the journalists, saying that the document Marina Crane (09:38.014) Legally protects our organization and its members, it also protects you from having any of the personal information you provide released under penalty of law. La Praisa did not meet in person with Second Sons. Second Sons did not respond to CBC's request for comment. Do you have more information on this story? Email us at six at cbc.ca. Former soldier exposes. So again, like I like why would I be so interested in in such a format? Well, even when I lived in Utah, I had a instructor who was teaching history and he had met a former ex military person and he said to him, he said, I like the to the instructor, he said, I like the fact that you go deer hunting and you know how to tan hides and string up a a deer or elk or whatever th the game is. And he says, if you show me how to do this, I'll show you how to kill a man. Like where to put the knife and all that. And the instructor who was teaching history was telling the like the class that that you know white supremacy is prevalent and it's it's it exists and this was like decades ago. And even to like I think And most of the stuff that I hear about in terms of white supremacy is coming from universities. So that's why like even in Red Deer, like the how much how many people are associated to white supremacy. And at the same time, just like a few months ago, just s a couple of like a half an hour from here, there was a group of the Son Sons of Anarchy or the these people who were recruiting so the reality of it actually being here is is important to to talk about because the this whole need to identify with something the like like it's a cultish type of need like just it's sort of just engrosses you and I I don't know how else to put it in except that Marina Crane (12:03.359) It it does exist and I'm just trying to try and see if I can get here's We'll see how this goes here. Our hands on the contract that Canada's most prominent white supremacist group uses to stop its members from revealing its secrets. And it shows a lot about how they work. Second Sons has chapters across the country. Holding demonstrations like this one at the Kamloops de Sequepum Reserve, just east of Kamloops, and conducting military style drifs. We got the group's non-disclosure agreement from a former military member who wanted to join Second Sons. We're not naming him due to fears for his safety. He was drawn in by Second Sons' patriotic messaging. But when he met recruiters in person, he was shocked to learn what they really stand for. He tells us they talked about how Hitler was a genius and their hatred for Jewish people, based on what Second Sons leaders have. said publicly, that's not surprising. The Nazis were right to support their own people. The Nazis were right to to it imply that Germany is for the Germans. Marina Crane (13:09.779) She's clearly anxious about individuals coming forward or speaking to the press or others about their activities. Well, I think there's a real risk that an NDA like this might have a chilling effect on someone's speech. Here's what the NDA tells us. It says applicants agree to hold all confidential information in strict confidence. We also learned Second Sons is a federally incorporated company. And according to experts we speak to, being a company means Second Sons has to fall I'll do it. Like give give me give me give me some guys and some weapons and we'll fucking we'll get rid of them. We'll take them up. Get in the truck. You're going to the airport. Make me okay. Bang. Anybody else? Anybody else knock wanna go to the airport? Who wants to go to the airport? Show of hands, who wants to go to airport? Get of the truck. I only had to shoot one, see? Easy. I've never seen or heard of a corporation calling for racial violence. It is highly problematic and illegal to do that. Now, because it's a corporation, Second Sons is supposed to file annual financial reports. We find they haven't been doing that. In fact, the government has already sent a notice of intent to dissolve the company. If there's anything you'd like us to investigate, email us at ei at cbc.ca. So I don't know if you're able to hear that, but it's just the whole notion of of s of recruiting somebody and like even under a business, the guise of a business, a corporation, And that people have to pay like like a tithing or a monthly support to that company, which is again cultish. Like I said, I may be criticizing Mormonism, but you know, like when you have a group of people who believe that they're aliens from another planet and that their you know, their skin is white and I like I like I don't know. It sounds like a fairy tale, but again it's dangerous. Marina Crane (15:12.723) Like what I'm talking about is like fallacies or delusion or illusions. of and and you know, we can do all the psycho psych psychological good you call when you analyze it. But the reality of it is that there are some very dangerous people out there who whose thinking has to do with so much violence. Now, I know when I talk about intergenerational trauma and I talk about and there's a lot of people who are in denial of the existence of Indian residential school and this intergenerational trauma. But but I want people who who are white supremacists or who think like the way like that they they have some some like superiority is that you're not alone. You're s y the mere image of intergenerational trauma that these sons of anarchy are carrying is basically what I talk about. But but because of the racial dogma or like the wall, like some sort of illusion or wanting to identify they they really don't know how dangerous they are. Or s in some cases they do, but when the action means for them to perform, that's really dangerous. Now, it might seem hypothetical and un until you actually look within your own family structures or your or what you allow to be enmeshed in the way you raise your children, your grandchildren. It's it's like There there's a reason I try to talk about intergenerational trauma and just healthy sexuality because because the ground core of every human being is is the sexual identity. But when you get like the creation stories of people and how the creation stories tied around the color of someone's skin Marina Crane (17:19.487) It that that's really dangerous. And and the thing is like it it it's ingrained, you know, it's it but until you actually self reflect and say, Do I believe in that? I d I don't think a lot of people sort of well, I know people don't get it. But It's it's a pretty it's a pretty tough slope to to to follow because You really have to you really have to come to terms with your own ways of thinking and and sometimes it's it's a little harder than than you than you like like that really challenges like how you were raised and and the things that you believe in and whether or not standing for what you believe can can ostracize you, can shun you from the rest of your family or your community. So like that You need to understand that it is in it. Morgan. I'm Anyway, I wanted to play that but at the same time too, because of Ind Indian Residential School and September thirtieth was truth and reconciliation and the laws and what what people are denying in terms of Indian residential school and and like for people and companies to write like show me show me the bones, like show me the bones of these children. I was so triggered. Like I said, I got up in the woke up in the middle of the morning and if I didn't have my friend in Hong Kong to debrief me or just hold my hand in spirit, I I just I said I just feel trapped. So, you know, like when you have organi white supremacist organizations Marina Crane (19:03.543) That are infiltrating through social media. And and understand this, this isn't something new. Like I said, decades ago in Utah, they had this movement. And the same thing in Red Deer, Alberta. And now here in well, what's just Millerville, where they had this Sons of Anarchy get together. This isn't, this isn't something new. This is like it's been around from for, we'll say from the beginning of time. And a lot of people try to analyze like when did skin color become such a topic? And people try to analyze it and do everything they can, but the reality of it is these are all when I talk about intergenerational trauma, even though they the white supremacists may not understand the psychology of why they hate people so much. is based on their own trauma and their own inability to deal with it. So so when you get the tools of truth and reconciliation and you start applying it, then you yourself start healing because it's a framework. It's a spiritual framework. And and for for the past five hundred years, what has been happening in the Americas hopefully, you know, gets somebody thinking the world isn't the way it was. And for white supremacists to believe that they can you know, somebody just goes to them and say, I'm angry at my neighbor. Can you go and shoot them? Believe me, people just comment everyday people, you wouldn't think they have that kind of anger. And some of this anger it doesn't even have to do with the person's skin color. But when but when you put it in that context and and you keep on percolating and enabling and s and stoking the fire, it it becomes a real danger to to people. And the thing is, when it comes to children and young influential people like people who are trying to I I d I don't know, it's just Marina Crane (21:10.783) It it just boggles my mind and and I like one of the triggering things that I wanted to talk about too was dur September 30th, when they were having truth and reconciliation, there were lot of people talking about trauma. And this one young woman, she's an influencer, she said this is gonna be a trigger warning. Now consciously I'm going, I can handle it, but really at three o'clock in the morning I woke up and I'm going, I'm not handling it. Why wasn't I handling it? Like I do these podcasts and I I think, okay, I'm doing it, I'm handling it. But the reality of it is it triggers are triggers. And she was talking about like her her her parents and her father, like they were they were they were survivors of Indian residential school. And I want to say survivors because you have to understand this. Like when when we talk about groups or cultish like groups, they're survivors of something. And so you see, you see the violence of it. And sometimes there's shame and guilt attached to it because of the behavior. So this young woman is talking about her parents, survivors of Indian residential school, and she talks about her mother knowing the type of man her dad was, and yet her mother would leave her with her father who would eventually traffic her for like just taking a cab, you know, so he could fees his feed his addiction of alcohol and drugs. And then and then later on she has children and then the parents, like the mother is basically enabling the trafficking of their own daughter and she's an influencer today. Okay, so she's talking and she's creating her narrative. As much as I say I'm doing something similar on this podcast, I I I want to use this an example that they're the intergenerational trauma and how young people are processing the r what happened to them as children. Horrific things that are unforgivable. Like that their parent like the father could the in sexual relationships and the mother knowing this. And then on top of that, the gr as grandparents, they want to have custody of this woman, this y this influencer's daughter. Now she's talking about this as a narrative as in past tense. But yet Marina Crane (23:27.253) the r the struggle and the persistence of trying to protect her daughter from the from the gr her grandparents because they're survivors of Indian residential school. And and this is a woman who's advocating and saying, This is really what's happening. This is what was created in those places. And so when I talk about my own parents and I talk about the perils of what they experienced and the lack of therapies or the lack of deconstructing or or deprogramming the way people think, it's it's not an easy task. And I tell you, for me living in my community and having to understand understand the way indigenous women think. So when I talk about the deconstruction of the Inganact and the caste system, of how women, just women, are filled with in indigenous f that's First Nations inuit in Metis communities. It it's it it it's a telltale because it's d like we s we live it. So so so in other words, like when you have other groups like this white supremacy group and whatever trauma they're creating, like they created this corporation, they want to create structure. They want to create structure to see something. And I'm saying, well, no, we've got this law that the Canadian government has created, reinforced by police and then to deconstruct it and then all of a sudden people are wanting forgiveness and call like a national day of truth and reconciliation, everybody wears orange orange shirt. Okay, y yes, but but does that cause other people to to hold resentment towards us? When I hear this young woman talk about her her parents Marina Crane (25:19.825) And and then when I talk about Nathan Chasing horse and and just the trafficking that was allowed by the women who wanted help for their daughters and the repercussions of that without women actually knowing what they're doing. Like that that's the critical thinking here that I that I try to impress on people. Because it it it's for me as an individual, I've had to really put boundaries down with people who I associated with because like twenty years and I've had to stop friendships. And the reality of it is like it's so ingrained. It's so ingrained. And I'm I'm trying not to take away from from you know this whole white supremacy part. But but over the weekend my my childhood friend that I met at Indian Residential School in Manitoba, who last year I went to their fiftieth anniversary, she called me, she says, My granddaughter, the police have the police have come to her place, they've tell told her to get out because her partner who's who's a white man, you know doesn't want her in the apartment even though she claims her name is on the lease. So I s so she the grandmother sent the granddaughter money to cab it. Like it was a three hundred dollar cab ride. I waited for her 'cause I thought, okay, the grandmother's gonna come and needs a safe place for her granddaughter to be I I I'll I said, Okay, I'll do this. But the reality of it is, my goodness, what did I get myself into? This young woman has a a criminal record of violence. Of violence. And and like she says, I've got borderline personality disorder and I said to her, I said to her, Do you know that you can heal from borderline personality disorder? Marina Crane (27:27.861) I said, do you do you know like it takes a lot of hard work to heal? I said, do you do you know that a lot of the survivors of Indian residential school, those children, came out of those places with borderline personality disorder? I said, and and and we as the s of the children of those survivors have seen the violent acts, the anger. You know, my my I come from a very political family and my cousin, the a former chief You know, he's talking about my uncle, his dad, and how brutal he was. How he'd just come home and have a bad day and he would just beat up his his sons. That anger, that anger just spontaneous, like like you can't control it. I've I've seen it. I my childhood memory, my b as a baby, seeing my uncle act like that towards my aunt, permeates at an unconscious level for me. I've been really like when my c when I hear stories of my cousin, you know, he says I had to wear long sleeves so I could cover my bruises. And I'm saying this is what intergenerational trauma is all about. Borderline personality disorders with an like the anger, just just unable to control their behavior. I know with my late mother when she'd say something cruel to me, she'd say, I didn't mean to say it. It just comes out uncontrollable. We had discussions like this, my late mother and I. And and that's why like I'm so passionate about intergenerational trauma. And this young woman, my my childhood friend's granddaughter, I'm the same age as this woman's grandmother. And I'm saying to her, you know, whatever medication you're on, what she said, I've been to therapy, I've been to this Yaddi Dada like La Dida. I you know, really I'm I'm not naive. You know, I'm not naive. And sure as hell I wasn't going to let her get away with this shitty narrative she was creating for herself. Self defeating. And I and I you 'cause I was trying to say to her, No, there y you know, y I I've seen kids like my my niece, she's she's in her late twenties. I I would drive her to school. Marina Crane (29:49.974) Because she didn't want to get on the bus 'cause her peers were so horrible just the way they talked about alcohol and drugs. And these are fifteen, sixteen year olds and swearing. And my niece didn't want to be around that, so I drove her. And I made sure my niece went to therapy because of the things that that her her dad was involved in. So the reality of it is like, okay, this this woman, she's thirty-eight. She's thirty-eight years old. And it it just it it like the reality is that she's got children and she's still behaving like a child. She you know, she she's got the fact that she I she moved in with this white guy and and the thing is like everything that has to do with whiteness is is is appropriate. So if you go to a white therapist or a white doctor and they prescribe you psychotropic drugs to help you with your borderline personality disorder, like that's why I just don't like I just don't like the mental health professionals that are white. Because because a lot of this white supremacy and this indigenous people who've been traumatized trying to like if she says I'm I'm I'm I'm crazy. Like like at the notion of like at what point did she just get defeated in in who she is and how she identifies herself. And and and I know it's hard work and it's a really hard thing to to to debrief and discuss in terms of helping helping people with intergenerational trauma. But w part of the reason that I that I talk about these things is like I said, there are young people, young influencers. who are just the same as this 38-year-old who who aren't who who are abvocating who are who are healing and then I see this 38-year-old who has just given up and I'm going, you're you're young. You like stop over medicating yourself. See, when my niece, like like when I she was a teenager when I took her in, and and there were a lot of young people who were just self Marina Crane (32:16.341) medicating 'cause doctors would give them these antidepressants or or whatever as teenagers. And I'm going, No. Like just I c it it it amazes me that parents with they have behavioral problems, they just give the child a pill. And then you're raising generation after generation like that. And I'm going, No. You got anyway, bottom line is this young woman was so Everything. Everything. I had to smudge my house this morning. 'cause she slept all day yesterday and and everything I did was like she's I shouldn't have done this. I shouldn't have even called c under her breath and I'm going, What? Like like even though she doesn't even know me, she was so she had so much spite and hate towards me. And and all and she's texting her grandma all the time and I'm going, I'm not getting a point. in involved in this. I just want her out of my house. I had to call my cousin. Or my cousin called me and I thought, okay, escape, escape. So I s I say to the 38-year-old, I need to go to Costco. And she didn't want to come and I I said, well I'm I'm I didn't really want her to be alone in my house. And so we went out and I picked up my cousin and my cousin understand this. I want my audience to understand this and get Get this, because this is the shitty part of it. I've grown up a w around white people my entire life. I really don't give a damn if, you know, like you come and challenge me and I will, you know, I will we'll we'll have a discussion. I won't fist fight, but we'll have a discussion. Now my cousins were rodeo rodeo people. They were tough and rough and t hard to bluff. Those girls would get up at five in the morning, run their ponies down to the river and run back. They they knew how to work. They were gutsy women. Now why did I bring my co why like I'm my this is my second cousin. See and the lady, the thirty-eight year old, she's she's she's my second cousin's daughter. Okay, so you know, I'm I'm like like when I talk about relationships, and then I talk about my first cousin and and you know how how his dad was so violent towards him. Marina Crane (34:43.105) the boys in that family. Intergenerational trauma. Okay? Now I'm t my so my cousin who who's this former like she's she she's a pensioner. Like the like I'm talking I picked her up with the and the thirty eight year old came. And I s after like we'll try and get this story short and to the point. In the whole process of what I needed to do, she sa she says to me, My grandmother 'cause I knew her I knew Her grandmother, my childhood friend from Indian Residential School, was coming to pick her up right after work yesterday. So she was driving from Manitoba. And so in the afternoon she says, My grandmother's getting me a ho a room at the hotel. And see, like even last night, even when I picked her up, she says, I should have just got a room in a hotel at like in that town where she was coming from. Understand this four hundred dollars taxi driver to come to Calgary? Anyway, she had to put her grandmother had to put another four hundred dollar deposit just so she get a room at this hotel. And I told my cousin, I'm gonna drop her off. I'm gonna like I like you know, I I didn't say it literally, but sh my cousin knew. So we got everything ready, came back to the house, this thirty eight year old took got her little luggage and I said, Okay, I'm dropping off the hotel. so she went in and I told my cousin, I said I said, without telling her all the particulars of this thirty eight year old, I said, Did you did you get a sense of who she is? She says, Yes. See, understand this. My cousin they were c you know, rodeo people. But when they were young they ran away to Vancouver, got involved with the drugs and the street drugs and met a lot of indigenous people and a lot of them were were you know intergenerational trauma, like they were really hard angry women and so I said to my cousin do do you recognize this kind of behavior? She says, yes, Marina. She says, I I you know, she like I want my audience to understand I I had my my cousin there debriefing me because I haven't been around women like that. You know, like I I've lived a very sheltered life in the sense because because of that Marina Crane (37:11.425) Like I just that I don't know, maybe it was seeing all this stuff when I was a a child with my uncles, like that anger. He was so angry my uncle. And if and for my father, like to see that too. When I was a baby my grandparents took me because they didn't want me to be around that violence and I was you know, they took care of me for six months. And they did that with my first cousin too. They protect they were protecting their grandchildren from the violence of their children. Like my a my my dad, that was my dad's half-brother. So so when I talk about the anger and borderline personality disorders, and I try to explain this stop being in denial. This is a result of all this shit that happened to them when they were children in those residential schools. And we're still dealing with it. We're still dealing with it. Like my heart breaks for my friend. who's seventy one years old, who has to work and pay for her granddaughter to g so that she can she so she can get back to Manitoba. Why? Because sh the granddaughter is so violent to her white husband that the white the white partner they're not legally married, but he's so scared that he that he c she's gonna kill him. Like that's the kind of anger that I allowed in my house. I just wanted her to leave and I was grateful that I had my cousin who had been around young women like that, who could tolerate that kind of behavior. I told my cousin I'm so grateful you're here with me to drop her off at this hotel. I said because it it's heartbreaking to know that a thirty-eight-year-old still believes all that white supremacy bullshit about her being scared. Crazy and insane. That learned like that projection of learned helplessness. And for her to believe, to feel trapped all the time in that body of hers. So when I woke up Marina Crane (39:25.237) the middle and I f I told my friend in Hong Kong I said I feel trapped. I said, I know these stories triggered me. And that's what she told me. She says, you know, if you go to she says, there's black Americans who go to Africa and they and they it takes about a week for them to feel like human beings because of the social pressure of of them being black in America. And I said, Let's how I feel in Canada. I wear my skin and people just automatically assume But I have this violent nature. This violent nature that I saw in this thirty eight year old woman. I just like to what extremes to what extremes do do do do Canadians w want to see you know, is it is it appropriate for them to just look at this th thirty eight year old and and just say that all Indigenous people are like this? She is this way because of things that happened to her. She told me what her grandmother did to her and what her parents did to her. Intergenerational trauma. Learned like whatever be anger they have that they inflicted on this woman who's now thirty eight in isolated communities where they don't have child development or any kind of structure. That's why I say you had all these people going Marina Crane (40:59.263) into these residential schools with no fucking understanding of ch early childhood development. Not even and and brutally brutalizing these kids. And then they c then they come out and then they brutalize their children because they think it's normal. Shame on all you white supremacists to think that you're so superior that you have to do this to children. Marina Crane (41:32.109) It's heartbreaking. It's devastating. But yet at the same time I'm trying to say are so many young people who who have seen this, who've grown up in it, and who are advocating on TikTok and social media and they say there's a trigger warning, they'll warn you, this is my life. They'll say that. Like I can I can talk about being sexually assaulted, you know, when I was when I was eight, nineteen. But, you know, like I can't comprehend if I if that had happened to me when I was a child. I can't comprehend the brutality of it if that happened to me with my own family. Marina Crane (42:22.633) I just I can comprehend it as a ch adult. And and yet and yet I grew up with people in my community who who these things were happening. And and and I think okay, I I chose a to walk a different life. It it's hard it's hard in the sense I was talking to my younger sister and I was saying to her I said, you know, like when I talk about choices indigenous women make, like I said, a lot of the women I grew up chose not to marry their partners so that their children would have status, would re be be members of the community. And pff pff and and that's a hard pill to swallow because you have attitudes of sexuality towards women who choose to be single and have children. Especially if you've been raised in a religious ideal like a democ on a community where th you know you've been s pro basically programmed from if you went to a a Catholic Indian residential school or a Presbyterian Indian residential school, like you were programmed about the sins of, you know, not being married in in a religious church. Yeah, so a lot of the women growing up wore that, like that there were less than. And and so a lot of the women had children, including including my sisters, who ch chose to have children so that their children would have status. And and I have one sister who's who married a a Navajo, but because under the Indian Act her children aren't considered i This is why this Bill S S six three or X X two S two is so vital. But anyway, I I have to laugh because you gotta go to my previous broadcast podcast when I talk about the caste system when it comes to whi in d women. So why am I bringing this up is that there were some women who marry who actually did marry other indigenous people. Marina Crane (44:39.009) But because Soutina has economic development of one point five billion dollar and and we've been slowly evolving in terms of prosperity in in in the concept of what is prosperous. 'Cause there's a hell of a lot of things that Soutina has that that poor communities never have and never will because they're isolated, like like hours away from big cities. So So what happens is you have some women who we're I grew up with who are younger who married other First Nations Inuit or Metis and then and then all of a sudden they want to come back to Sutina. Well there's such a protocol. Our membership is so s steep, so strict. It's similar to like say to Cherokee or what the Metis Association is designing so that people who t want who pretend to be indigenous, you know, they have to go through this whole hoop, this whole dancing process of trying to become and be voted in as a member. It's one thing to have your name on a general list in Ottawa. It's another thing to be actually voted into the community. And again I'm talking about a caste system here. So so rather than rather than having to go through the whole rigmarole of learning the language and passing the tests and get voted on, a lot of the Sutina Nation women who did marry other indigenous people, they came back to our communities and they married the men that they grew up with. Didn't love them, did not love them, just used them to get on the ban list. Now why am I saying this? Is when I talk about intergenerational trauma and when I talk about narcissists, you know, like when I talk about what is like when I talk about healthy human sexuality and narcissism and this whole thing with Nathan Chasing Horse this. This narcissist who made a whole bunch of psychopaths who you know, cult people who came in. And that's why I think in terms of white supremacy, when you have people who are cult like and who are narcissistic, and they promote all this and they're th they're really basically training people to be psychopaths. The ability to kill based on color. anyway Marina Crane (47:02.433) The re reality is like, yeah, there are intergenerational trauma, like I talk about this thirty eight year old narcissist. There's so many like I said, the product of inter birdline personality disorders, psychopaths, narcissists. The reality is like to identify a woman as being a narcissist, but also with a Machiavellian person Machiavellian personality attached to that. And so what does that make? It makes women who married out, marrying back into community, who are narcissistic and do not love their partner. I know I had an adopted brother who'd come and talk to me. My brother my late brother said you know, he just talked about his friend's emotional pain, you know, knowing that he was used to so this woman could be a band member. And and I I want you to understand Th these young men are dead now. Okay? So this isn't some sort of fairy tale. You know, th women have done some real harm to to to real men. And and it's Machiavellian. It it's systemic. And yet and yet like what what the hell am I doing? You know, I I I just thought like I have to I'm a woman. These women have gone through trauma, we're sisters, but no. The I really find that, you know, I've since the sentencing of Nathan Chasing horse, I've really had to put my boundaries down with women who were associated with Nathan Chasing horse who who you know basically drank the Kool Aid and still drink the Kool Aid in my community. Okay, 'cause they they love the gossip. They they love the gossip. And one lady came up to me a few days ago and I think this is why it's so triggering. And she says, Marina. She says, I was gonna go down to the sentencing. I had promised this woman I was gonna be there for her daughter and and I just th I just it just was so cringy. So cringy because like I I I I went down on my own volition. I paid my own way. I went down because like I needed to have closure. And and here's this woman saying, Yeah, I could have gone down. Marina Crane (49:30.209) And I said to her, I said, I'm so angry. This is a woman, like I said to her, I'm so angry. I said, it just bothers me. I said that that people want something. They want something and they get paid to do something. I said, it angers me that I can do this on my own. I can have closure on my own. I said, but But it angers me that all these women who drank the Kool Aid and who, you know, thought like, their daughters are in love with Nathan Chasing horse and that's the first time they've talked about like their love for a indigenous man. Like and I'm I mean, like song and dance, you know, making it look nice, come and join me, I'm recruiting you kind of shit. I said, I'm so angry. I think that's why like when I talk about white supremacy and this cultish thing, like it angers me. Because when you're in the thick of it drinking that white supremacy Kool Aid, like the repercussions of of those individuals with within their own personal family structure. Because we're all human beings. And unless we actually, you know, step back and look at our own behaviour and our own way of thinking, we are we're hurting people. So, you know, I'm saying to this lady, like I I paid my own way. I said, but it angers me that that all these women, th these women who I thought, again, I'm not an analyst, I'm and again, when you're fr you're you're not being a therapist, but you know, I I had to step back and I'm going, No. And she she mentioned and this lady mentioned this woman that I stopped being friends with. this this narcissistic Machiavellian and she says, yeah, well so and so and I'm going, No. I said it's that's not her program. I said I just went because I was invited to because that's why I was at this place where this woman was able to talk to me. And she says to me, she says, I said I'm I'm tired. I'm I'm I'm I'm angry. I said I'm angry at all those women and and basically I'm looking at her. Marina Crane (51:50.607) 'Cause this woman I'm talking to paid Nathan Chasinghorse ten thousand dollars to have a prayer. For decades, a lot of the women would pay tithing, just like in the white supremacy, you know, you you're paying tithing or some sort of thing to this corporation. And Nathan Chasinghorse had set up a corporation, non profit corporation in California. You know, like so all this structure, this cultish like structure. And and that's what's the danger of it is because they're they're they're using they're using the color of their skin to influence and be covert have cov covert c control over the masses. Now and and again like I said, I just said to that lady, I'm so angry. I'm so angry. Because even it's twenty years and th those ladies who drank the Kool Aid haven't learned anything. Like I I'm saying to her, no, I I I went down there and I met one of the ladies who was drinking the Kool Aid and this is how she healed. I'm trying to say this to this lady who who who still, you know, thinks that she's not drinking the fucking Kool Aid. I'm saying to her, I'm angry. Marina Crane (53:10.882) You know, I said the the things like I said the things that I found out While I went to Nevada, I said I said you know, Nathan Chasing Horse, twenty years ago, everybody just thought, he's he's getting ch you know, child brides, fifteen year olds. You know, these women these women like th that this woman's talking about gave they gave their children to to Nathan. They gave these daughters to him. And then and then after, you know, decades or so they're going, my goodness, I made a mistake You know, I need to rescue my daughter or and I'm going, no, you still don't you're still having healed because you're thinking, your thinking is still the same way. That's why I was trying to say this woman, I'm so angry. I said, because because nobody listened to me. And because of that, this man did horrific things to children for twenty years. I said, I said, even with ten year olds, and she just looked at me. And and and I said, No, I'm angry. I said, because when I'm there trying to tell people this person, this person is bad. And nobody's listening to me. And I'm saying, Do you know how bad he was? Do you know how bad he is? He's serving a life sentence. Talk about intergenerational trauma and anger. Just like this thirty-eight year old woman that stayed in my home. That's why I had to smudge my house. That anger she carries. Nathan disguised it in spiritual, you know, spirituality. You know, like the you know, like white like supremacy. No white people in involved in his cult. Intimate, like close to him. He had some followers who were white, but but really if the anger Nathan carried, I see I see it. I've seen it. I've grown up with it. Marina Crane (55:14.061) You know, people say, Well, how did you know? How did you know what kind of man he was? Because it's it's it permeates in anger and violence, uncontrollable rage. Like I said, I I grew up with it. Like my cousin. Talking about see, and the thing is why I'm crying is because as children we didn't talk about it. And then you know, you have start having children and you see how your own sexual life affects your children. And you know, and for my cousin, you know, and a lot of people being triggered on September 30th with truth and reconciliation. And having these white supremacists in BC covering their faces, thinking that they're so smart because they can cover their faces and and my goodness, like they have the ability to have a business. And pay membership to that business, that corporation, because it's sanctioned by the Canadian government, like that they're so smart and that like they want to show the evidence that these children didn't die. There are over four thousand recorded deaths in these Indian residential schools. That's not talking about the papers that the Indian agents and those people in residential schools burnt. Anything and everything that those thousands of survivors, including my parents, including my mother, my relatives, documenting the horror stories of what they witnessed in those places, those are gonna be burnt in or k or d deleted in 2027. And those are living documents of what they witnessed. Like even having, and this is a trigger warning, even have witnessing nuns throwing Babies into incinerators. Marina Crane (57:12.141) You know, it's I whatever this young woman, this thirty eight year old woman, whatever grandparents and her parents did to her, and how she became this human being with with borderline personality disorder. Marina Crane (57:36.482) that she's there in society and like I just feel sad that she's lost. There's nothing I can do to help her. She she's gonna go back to an isolated community with no professional help. And even even to have indigenous people who are therapists to help her. If they had structure and able to help people with with borderline personality disorders, even if it's even if it's cultish. I mean and I and for everything that I say I that's how desperate I am. But really, no, no cultish, please, no cultish ways of thinking or anything. Healing is an individual process. And I just wanted to put it out there because it's so hard. Marina Crane (58:35.617) You know, when you people can publish stuff about white supremacy. And and they can say how violent it is. You know, but when you're looking at intergenerational trauma and just the violence, these children grew up and they had no sense of control over their behavior and just lashed out. And we are the products of that. And how do we heal and tell people these things? You know, I try talking about erotomania and limerence. And erotomania is basically what this thirty eight year old her behavior with with this white partner. Marina Crane (59:22.881) That she's so violent to him. And and the reality of it is she worshiped the ground he walks on because he's white. He represents the mental health workers, everybody who can diagnose her and enable her. So anybody anybody who can enable her, that's her that's her go to person. That's like that's the macab that's the erodomania. It's to the point where this man has to get a restraining order, calls the police on her, she's got a criminal record. When I talk about erotomania and it's not based on reality. And she says, my insanity, I'm like she even has labeled it because somewhere somebody had told her this. Which which to me is like, how do you how do you do this when you have white people who don't even know what it's like to be indigenous? don't even know the culture and to to to have some sort of misguided therapy for this thirty-eight year old. That's what's so tragic. So that's why I talk about Machiavellian versus limerence as well, because limerence is also the part of the fantasy. The because the fantasy you can you can basically when you're involved, you can basically ghost that person. And so that's why when I talk about narcissist narcissistic Machiavellian women. That's that's part of the limerence, the fantasy of the the gossip, the the inability to like, it's over there. You know, that's what makes me angry. It's that Machiavellian narcissistic Machiavellian limerence because it's over there, it's not happening. You know, like that stuff that's Nathan Chasing Horse is doing, it's not happening. And I'm going, No, it's happening. It's happening. Stop having the world revolve around you. There's a there are children being hurt because of your ego. so I don't know. I didn't I know it's hard. I live it every day and I try to help people and sometimes like I said I had to put boundaries down because if if I don't get paid for it, then it th they're not gonna value it. Marina Crane (01:01:44.738) Let me let me put it this way. When I do my tarot card reading, and I and I'm basically doing a therapy session, it doesn't mean anything unless money is exchanged. And as hard as that is to believe it's true. Especially when you're so vulnerable and have been abused and and neglected and have ha all this rage and anger. When money is attached to it. you you you value it. So even why I'm saying this is is that my my sessions that I've had with people that I assumed were my friends were only my friends because you know they get cheap they get not cheap but they're well in in a way like they don't value. And because they don't value I I know my worth. And because they haven't ever been respected a as women, they they don't know their value and they refuse to value other indigenous women. And this isn't I'm just using it as an example 'cause I know it has to do with all races, all colors of of people. You have to know your value, you have to know you have to respect yourself. And when you have it reciprocal, when you have somebody respect you, it feels good. It's like a tingly warm feeling. That's all that's all. I'm just trying to be a little bit figurative in in the fact that I it's tragic it's tragic that that, you know, women have partners and they have children and they become grandparents and throughout this whole ordeal Marina Crane (01:03:36.993) They're they they They have t like it's it's so learned helplessness. It's it's so ingrained. And and when you have family and you keep on enabling, then then you you can't put any boundaries down because somebody's depending on you. Like like my friend, this thirty eight year old grandmother. smart intellectual woman. Probably probably a genius. But but However h whatever however she sees things can't can't do it. She's seventy one years old now. Everything that she's done she's not enjoying her life. Marina Crane (01:04:33.889) So, you know, at what cost is what cost is it? We have to learn to be able to live alone and lonely and isolation and and and be happy. You know, 'cause it's I I find like a lot of people are so scared to be alone. But yet, you know, we're we're born into this world alone and we leave this world alone. And And you know, I I I'm grateful for social media. grateful that that Marina Crane (01:05:16.631) Like f that you know, like I said, this we got our hands on the contract that Canada's most prominent white supremacist group uses to stop its members from revealing its secrets. And it shows a lot about how they work. Second Sons has chapters across the country, including demonstrations like this one at the Cantloop Disacweal Reserve, just east of Cantloops, and conducting military-style drifts. We got the group's non-disclosure agreement from a former military member who wanted to join Second Sons. We're not naming him due to fears for his safety. He was drawn in by Second Son's patriotic messaging. But when he met recruiters in person, he was shocked to learn what they really stand for. He tells us they talked about how Hitler was a genius and their hatred for Jewish people. Based on what Second Sun's leaders have said publicly, that's not surprising. The Nazis were right to support their own people. The Nazis were right to to i imply that Germany is for the Germans. Marina Crane (01:06:11.371) She's clearly anxious about individuals coming forward or speaking to the press or others about their activities. Well, I think there's a real risk that an NDA like this might have a chilling effect on someone's speech. Here's what the NDA tells us: it says applicants agree to hold all confidential information in strict confidence. We also learned Second Sons is a federally incorporated company. And according to experts we speak to. Being a company means second sons have to follow the law when its leaders say things like this. I'll do it. Look give give give me s give me some guys and some weapons and we'll fuck it we'll get rid of them. We'll take them up. Get in the truck, we've gonna the airport. Make me, okay, bang. Anybody else? Anybody else not want to go to the airport? Who wants to go to the airport? Show the hands, let's go to the airport. Alright, get out of the truck. I only had to shoot one, see? Easy. I've never seen or heard of a corporation calling for racial violence. It is highly problematic and illegal to do that. Now, because it's a corporation, Second Sends is supposed to file annual financial reports. We find they haven't been doing that. In fact, the government has already sent a notice of intent to dissolve the company. If there's anything you'd like us to investigate, email us at bi at cbc.ca. Repeating that, okay. So again, when I talk about Nathan Chasinghorse and I talk about his recruitment, I talk about like how dangerous like he even had mil ex military within within his cult. I think they had like over three hundred people. and again this white supremacy they're talking about is actively recruiting. Okay, so there are people out there who are actively engaging in this. And and I think too, a lot of people are drinking that Kool Aid. without knowing like the consequences of it, because they're dealing with their own inter we'll call it trauma. Their own personal history, their own personal stories. at at the same time too, like like like I said, Nathan Chasing Horse had st had created a non profit organization in California called Pipe. And and so everybody thought he was legitimate, just like what what they're doing here with the Sens Sons of Anarchy. Marina Crane (01:08:30.949) let's see here. I I want to also just do a little more. What if every time we call ourselves survivors of residential schools, we are actually training our nervous system to stay in survival mode? Something I learned from the late Harold Johnson is that our reality is created by the stories we tell ourselves. So when people would say that he was nothing but a drunk. He quit drinking and became sober. When people said he was a stupid lumberer, he went to Harvard law and became a crown prosecutor. Our nervous system is constantly finding evidence of danger in order to protect us. And it's easy for us to find danger in the healthcare system, in the education system, in the justice system as indigenous peoples, because violent salary colonialism is evidently ongoing. So for today on National Truth and Reconciliation Day, I invite you to reflect on the story that you are telling yourself and how that can really empower you to the person that you want to become. So not only are you a survivor, but you broke the cycle and you now have the power to accomplish anything in this world that you could dream of based on the story that you are now telling yourself. What if every time we call ourselves survivors of residential school? And that's a bare law. So that's why I'm talking about this nervous system, this thirty eight year old, and and just what society her choice to be around white people. and and how like she ha it's like learned helplessness. And then so this what I've just played is the opposite of that because as indigenous youth you can change that narrative. You can change your central nervous system. It's like I was talking to a childhood friend and I said, You know, when I go to casino and I lose, I feel normal. But see, understand this. My whole life I paid for my education. And there are times like I'll I'll use a a story here. I know I'm going off track for a bit, but years ago I got stuck in Montana on with my Marina Crane (01:10:58.635) my little used vehicle and I had I was stuck there for two weeks until I had my engine rebuilt and and then even then I had it would always stall 'cause there was a little a little pebble in my s my fuel fuel tu the tube in my f fuel in the carburetor and I'd ha every time it would stall I'd have to get a wrench and I'd hit it so that little pebble would move and I'd get gas into my car. So understand this, I'm driving down the interstate and I get stuck. Sometimes I'm there all day. Anyway, I finally got my car moving and I decided I was coming from Mont I had come from Canada into Montana to visit, got stuck there for two weeks and I was heading to Utah. Understand I didn't have very much money. Just like when I say when I gamble I'm I'm going like I I'm used to not having money when I lose. The moral of the story is I'm driving. And and I my car stalls, it's dusk, and the station wagon pulls up with two white guys and and they have a woman with two children in the back and fishing rods. They're going fishing or hunting. And they they get out of the car and they come towards me and they ask me with you know, before even asking me if I needed help, they j the guy says, Are you black? Are you Indian? I said, I'm Indian. He says, Good, because if you were black I wouldn't help you. Like talk about white supremacy. I I I was out in the middle of nowhere. They could have killed me if I said I was black. I don't know, but I felt like powerless. Because I had to I had to get my car going. As soon as I could get away from them, I had to do it. So they they you know, they my car started 'cause the little stone was dislodged and they just all felt like we did the most we did the Christian thing we helped you know, good we're good Samaritans and And they followed me right to the next little town and as I veered off to go heading to the direction of Utah, they waved like, you know, See you later and I'm just going, my goodness. They don't know how much like how they scared me. I could have like they c like like really they they could have killed me if I was black. That's what I pictured. My unconscious self and the reflection of this narrative. Marina Crane (01:13:20.757) So I'm driving I'm driving to Utah. And it like I said, this happened when it was dusk. So so as I'm driving, it's getting darker. And and over on the horizon I see you know, the si a little town or like you can see it all lit up. It was all flat prairie because I'd gone through Wind River Reservation up on top of the plateau, and bang, my car stalls. And I'm and I see in the field, like 'cause it's a It's a dirt road, like somebody must have just established a trailer and put electricity 'cause the the trailer was lit up. There was no set gravel road into the trailer, just a field. And and I thought, okay, I'm gonna have to go there and see if I could borrow the phone to get a tow truck. 'Cause I knew there was a little town, I could see it in the horizon. And again, I didn't have that much money. That's why sometimes I just wonder how did I get by living like this? Y you know, I mean like I had How did I pay my rent or find a job in Utah once I got there? Who like I I I must like I like I like I'm like I said, I had about 200, maybe 200, $300 on me. And I got out of the car and then I was gonna walk to the trailer and all of a sudden I heard this woman screaming. She was screaming, like she was like it was fear chilling screams like that. my goodness. I'm gonna be witness to a killing, to a murder. I was so triggered. So when I'm talking about like when I was a kid and I'd see my unc my uncle enraged, like that really triggered me. Like like again, this is my memory, my unconscious memory. I'm just triggered. I'm going, if if I witness a murder, he can kill me too. That's just after I had been tasked if I was black or Indian. So I'm con like I'm around you know, white people who are like d danger, danger, danger stranger. Marina Crane (01:15:19.949) So I get into my see and I'm laughing because it's you know, I'm fear this is fear that I'm laughing, okay? That's a memory. So I get into my little dance and it's a stick shift and I put it in reverse and I push with my foot out on the gravel. I push it into the ditch, and as my car rolls into the ditch, I just pop that clutch gas that that car just started. I just revved it, came out of the ditch, and I drove to that town in the horizon. I needed to find a place I was just trembling in fear for my life. And I thought, my goodness, if I park outside this motel and I get a room, somebody could just break the door down and kill me. I needed to find safety. This was all in my mind as a single indigenous woman. In you know, like I just so I found a holiday inn. I thought, okay, I'm gonna go in and I can in the hallway, they'll have cameras and security. That's how scared I was. So g I get I get the hotel room. Seventy bucks. I remember it was seventy dollars. How could I f afford that? How could I afford that? And I call I call my my mother and my younger brother, he was, you know, he was a teenager then. And I said to him, Tell Mum I'm okay. I told them what town I was in and that I was staying at a holiday in. And my cheeky little brother, bless his heart, he's he's dead now. He died when he was thirty five. He says to He says on the phone, he says, Mom, there's a woman on the phone saying she's Marina. But but it couldn't be Marina, because this woman is saying she's got a room at the holiday inn. And I know Marina's too cheap to get a room at the holiday inn. I thought, my brother. You don't know what kind of fear I just got into. But the fact that, you know, my my family knew how how you know I needed to hold on to my money. And and you know, talk to my childhood friend about gambling and I said, you know, when I lose and I don't have that money, it feels familiar. Like the irony of it is that it feels familiar and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't feel familiar because I live comfortably. Why do I subject myself to having that way, the feeling that way when I struggle so hard throughout my entire life just to get my education and to live, like to sacrifice? Marina Crane (01:17:45.601) So but again that's the the no the nate the notion of being an Indigenous woman traveling by herself in the States. And I do that. I've gone to New York and I've gone on the subway by myself. So I don't know if I always think about it as geographic memory. I just you know, when I was five years old and going and collecting rabbits in the on the trap the snare line and I I just think there there are just certain skill sets that my parents like I that I saw and that I was nurtured. So if I can help anybody in in even like like when they talk about the mindset that how you're raised in poverty and then how what you accomplish in your life, like the like like what this this young man said, the mindset if you if you believe it Like this thirty-eight year old woman, what she believes about herself is so tragic. That's why I was so like I just just the anger she carries with her. She doesn't need to carry that. But again, she accepted the narrative or the mindset of other people. And and the thing is the mindset that she carried is from the people like white people. Believe me, w when I was in Manitoba on my first day. in this little hick town and I took off from school and the people called I went to this place to get call of use the phone to call my mom or somebody. They called the police on me. A little child, like a I was me and my sister and I just thought, my goodness, I wasn't used to that because I was used to being living in the city. It just but just that white supremacy, like that white people have the like they have that right to call the police. They have that right The other person is going to p inflict punishment on this little savage. You know, like that like that people are raised that way. And that and that, you know, when you're isolated and you're a child and you think that white people have the answer and that whatever they think of you is the correct answer, I'm going, No. That's what's so tragic of this thirty eight year old. And and the the thing is like when I'm when I see and I hear so many other indigenous youth who are younger than her. Marina Crane (01:20:09.496) Who've gone through the same thing as her, and yet they've are on a healing journey and and she isn't. I just want to put that out there. Even though I've had this experience, I know there are so many other narratives, success stories of healing that that have come from sharing of stories and and and changing that mindset. Because even like with with alcoholism, too. Like my mother had this mindset she was an alcoholic, but she wasn't. That was her mindset because somebody told her. And and so a lot of things too when when people look at me and they say, well she's this way. Like I l I learned that mindset and I think twenty years ago I was living that mindset when it came to how I was dealing with Nathan Chasing Horse and and the limerence in it, the fantasy of it. and and not understanding the c cross cultural component, the narrative of being around white people, using that Pocahontas Disney character in in explaining my narrative to to them without understanding, like in terms of like what how like double double like the double wearing two hats, like the double narrative or the shadow effect. Call it call it what you may, but it's it's it's an indigenous or a person of a of a minority within any culture. You could be white in in India. Human skill in the skill set to negotiate and mediate and be involved in someone else in in investigating them is a skill set. And I'm grateful. I'm totally grateful. Marina Crane (01:22:01.923) You need to understand that there is an organized, well-funded effort to get you to hate Indigenous peoples. Whether it's the disgusting chuds at Rebel News selling worn shirts mocking dead children, or the Nazi fucks showing up with signs that say got bones, or BC MLA, Dallas Brody releasing a feature-length residential school denial documentary full of lies and bullshit. You don't think they would have noticed that some of their people went missing? That got over 600,000 views on YouTube. This has all happened. Because people with money see indigenous rights that are enshrined in our constitution, by the way, as getting in the way of them making even more money. Both the Rebel and Juno News have monetary ties to the fossil fuel industry. And guess who wants to build a pipeline through indigenous territory? Yeah, that's right. The same people denying the climate crisis also deny residential schools were bad. What a coincidence. And let's not forget, Dallas Brody holds almost fifty million dollars in real estate investments, so I'm sure Land back scares the shit out of her. These rich shitheads want you to see indigenous folks as the cause of your economic pain. If only they didn't have rights, then I'd be rich, they want you to think. But hey, whatever stops you from sharpening those guillotines. And this is how it's always worked. If you want to take other people's shit and still think of yourself as a good person, then you have to convince yourself that the other people are less than human. There were over 4,200 documented deaths at residential school. These were children snatched up by an institution whose whole purpose was to kill the Indian in the child. Denying this was bad is a cope. Because I'm sure you could imagine what it's like to have your child leave your home and never come back. This isn't about guilt. This is about shared humanity. Because you have much more in common with the average indigenous person than the average billionaire stoking hate. Marina Crane (01:24:02.264) That's why I talk ab like when I look at these young men who are being trained in white supremacy, you have they have more in common with indigenous people than than than the billionaires who are funding these corporations to hate, to to have people hate indigenous people. Like we've been around for five hundred years. Everything that we do and everything that our ancestors have given us We still practice it. We still practice it. And if I can if I have any influence in this young thirty-eight year old, I wouldn't I wouldn't know it. Because helping people is like you don't see the rewards. And if you could help one person, then then life's worth it. Because because that individual will go away thinking, at least hoping. I hope. That's all I can do. And and for me, like you know, I'm just grateful that I took care of my gr my niece for seven years. You know, it's she comes up to me and says hello and you know, just jokes around with me. Marina Crane (01:25:21.793) This is this is a a young woman who was eight years old when Nathan Chasing Horse came here. Marina Crane (01:25:31.549) And you know, when I say he tried to scare her when he w she was in ritual, when she was in ceremony and to find out that's what he was doing to other children eight to ten years old. He So many things so many things that we are so connected with in terms of being human and how we how we deal with our anger or don't deal with our anger.

Triggered within Truth and Reconciliation

Marina, thank you for sharing all of that. What comes through most strongly is not just anxiety. It sounds like you were carrying grief, memory, anger, compassion, and a deep awareness of intergenerational trauma all at once. When you describe waking up feeling trapped and then realizing that Truth and Reconciliation content had affected you more deeply than you expected, that makes sense. Triggers are often like that. They do not always arrive while we are watching or listening. Sometimes they show up hours later, in the middle of the night, when our minds finally have space to process what we witnessed. One thing I noticed throughout your reflection is that you kept asking yourself, "Why am I feeling this way?" And eventually you found an answer. You were hearing stories that connected not only to history, but to your own family. You cared for your mother. You witnessed the effects that residential school policies had on her life. You have spent years listening to survivors, advocates, victims of violence, and members of your own community. So when you hear denialism, racism, or mockery directed toward that history, it is not an abstract political debate. It touches real people you loved. What I also hear is that you did something healthy. Instead of staying alone with those feelings, you reached out. You called someone you trusted. You talked. You reflected. You put words to your experience. That is the opposite of helplessness. Helplessness says, "There is nothing I can do." What you did was: recognize what you were feeling, identify possible triggers, seek connection, reflect on your experiences, and share your thoughts through your podcast. Those are acts of agency. I think your friend Cherie made an important observation when she talked about people feeling lighter when they finally enter an environment where they are not constantly carrying the burden of being viewed through someone else's assumptions. Whether someone is Indigenous, Black, immigrant, or any other marginalized person, there can be exhaustion from always having to explain, justify, educate, or defend one's humanity. That exhaustion is real. You also spoke about something very powerful: "I don't need to be rescued. I need to be understood." I think many people who have experienced trauma would recognize themselves in that statement. Being understood is different from being fixed. Being heard is different from being saved. Being witnessed is different from being pitied. Throughout your reflection, you repeatedly returned to the importance of bearing witness. To listen. To believe survivors. To acknowledge pain without denying it or rushing past it. At the same time, I gently want to reflect something back to you. You carry a tremendous amount of responsibility in your heart. You speak for your parents, your grandparents, survivors, victims of violence, Indigenous youth, and future generations. Those are noble commitments, but they are also very heavy. No single person can carry all of that alone. Sometimes feeling trapped can come from unconsciously carrying more than one human being was ever meant to carry. It is okay to put some of that weight down for a moment. Not because the history is unimportant. Not because the work is unimportant. But because you matter too. The young people you worry about need elders who survive, rest, and heal, not only elders who carry pain. What struck me most was when you described realizing that the feeling was a trigger rather than an immediate danger. You were able to tell yourself: "I'm safe. Nobody is coming to harm me." That awareness is important. It doesn't make the feelings disappear, but it helps separate the present moment from the past. From everything you've written, I don't hear weakness. I hear someone who was emotionally overwhelmed by witnessing suffering, reminded of family history, confronted with ongoing prejudice, and trying to make sense of it all. That's a very human response. And I think your ending is important: you are trying to educate, to create understanding, and to encourage people to talk about difficult things rather than bury them. Whether people agree with every conclusion or not, the desire to tell the truth about your experience and your family's experience comes through very clearly. For what it's worth, I don't think the feeling you woke up with was a sign that you were failing. I think it was a sign that something meaningful touched a wound that has not completely healed. The fact that you noticed it, named it, and talked about it is itself part of healing. I'm glad you reached out to your friend, and I'm glad you shared your reflection here. 💛

Provide your feedback on BizChat Marina Crane (00:01.196) good morning. It's October first. Hey, the leaves are changing colors. Why am I doing this so early in the morning? Well, I have a luncheon this afternoon with a lot of seniors my age. Last night I had a I got up and I just had anxiety. and there were a lot of other complications, but then it had me thinking And I thought, why am I feeling this way? Why do I feel trapped? And then the reality of the triggers that that I had the day before, like I was talking about truth and reconciliation, and the trigger I didn't think about the triggers, like hearing stories, horrific stories. And I know one of the late ladies, the influencers, she she did, you know, say it's a trigger warning, but I unconsciously didn't think it would have such an impact on me. I mean I talk about trauma and I talk about just my life but and I and I do, you know, I I d you know, I I do miss my parents and my grandparents. But it but it was the notion that all of a sudden in Canada thousands and thousands and thousands of people are walking commemorating all these children children. And and just like well better late than never but even then It's just so heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking. And I I think it's listening to the comments of of young people or the reality of like, my goodness. like I like I I'm a functioning human being that's got a podcast and I talk about my life. And Marina Crane (01:54.572) y the reality the reality of the fact that I can speak and t and talk and say things and even express my feelings. But the reality of the there's so many thousands of people cannot do this. So many people who have suppressed their feelings, anxiety and whatever they're dealing with. And I think that's why when you like the one lady talked about her her her her experience and And the just the the how it had affected her her own daughter and and just from her own childhood experience. Just an innocent question? No, you can't. Because we all know exactly why you're asking that question. And we all know exactly how you feel about us. You fucking hate us. The same way that your colonizer ancestors who built the residential schools did. And it's that hate behind your innocent question that makes it evil, vile, and hateful. So I got a question for you. If you're so happy to carry on that tradition of hate and racism and evil by your ancestors, why are you hiding? Because yes, every time you try to hide your racism behind an Innocent question. You're hiding just like these buttholes here did. But guess what? Your evil ancestors couldn't get rid of us. We're still here. And you and your hate today, you don't stand a chance either. Hate is all you got. And now you're trying to mask it behind innocent questions, which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Happy on shirt day. Asking the question in Catherine is not considered hateful. At least as per Mark Carney. Got been a lot of hate around Owen Shirt Day this year, even So that's W L L W H R S E Wiley. And I I think that's the whole point is like the unconscious self Marina Crane (04:15.906) feeling hate but not really control not even processing it. Like unable to process it. because it it's it's like I said, I felt trapped. And I was wondering like why why am I feeling this way? What what is it that you know, what what is it that that like at the the my unconscious self, I'm I'm seeing this. And I I don't know, I just I just I woke up and I wanted I needed somebody to talk to. And I'm just grateful that I was able to get a hold of somebody that You know, I really didn't wanna make a video about the Second Sons and the residential school denialism that's happening across the country or this movement that's going against First Nations, that is spreading across the country. But after seeing images of masked men apparently associated with the Second Sons, having a banner that says gut bones, the university incident in Calgary and BC politicians openly promoting denialism, I felt like it was my civic duty to say something. As a Mi'kmaq person, seeing our people suffering turned into a slogan is painful. These are families, these are survivors, this is our Canadian Marina Crane (05:59.993) Sorry, I put my phone down and it. Actual history. My concern though goes beyond that banner that was hanging across the bypass. This kind of division leaves Canada vulnerable to foreign interference. And I'm not claiming that I have some kind of proof that foreign governments are fine funding these particular groups. I'm saying that the division that they create serves the interest of anyone. Who wants to weaken this country? A foreign government doesn't need to invade a country to undermine it. It can exploit its anger, it can manipulate the people, it can amplify radical voices, and it can encourage people to turn against one another. Think about it. What does that achieve? Number one, it creates a distraction. Number two, it creates chaos. Number three, it creates division. When in this particular time this country desperately needs unity. Number four, it amplifies people's already existing frustrations about the government and then redirects it towards a minority. Number five, and this is the most important one, it creates distrust in the democratic institutions and our electoral government. And let me be clear. Holding a government accountable is our right, is our democratic right. But convincing people that their neighbors are their enemy isn't accountability. It gives anger a target while leaving the real problems unresolved. History gives us a reason to take foreign interference seriously. The United States funded radical groups in Iran. In Guatemala, they did the same thing. They funded the Houthis in Syria. They funded Al Qaeda. Etc. etc. etc. Those operations covertly support efforts to influence events inside their country. Those examples don't prove who's behind the groups in Canada today. They do show why we should pay attention and how division can be exploited. Marina Crane (08:29.174) What worries me about this unconventional warfare is the propaganda and manipulation and the economic pressure that come with it. A country can be weakened without a foreign army ever crossing the border. Influencing people can cost far less than fighting a conventional war. When you think about it, you can spend a million dollars on a few influencers compared to a billion dollars on an all out campaign for a month. There's a trap to belong in, and this is what they exploit too. These groups will welcome you, make you feel heard, make you feel like they're make you feel like you're part of the family. And once your sense of belonging depends on that group, you may feel the pressure to accept things that you would once question or act outside of your moral compass. Wanting to belong is human. Exploiting that need is manipulation. Look how minorities became targets in Canada over the last couple years. First it was immigrants, then it was the LGBTQ plus community, and now it's First Nations. I worry about what comes next. And if we're following the same pattern as the United States, it's women's rights that are next. Different targets but the same strategy. Blame somebody else for your frustration. And create chaos. So my advice is this gray rock the provocations. Basically, what I'm trying to say, just ignore it. Don't feed into the post. Don't engage in arguments. Don't outrage or share those videos. Even when you share something to even condemn it, you can help you are helping carry that message further. Speak about what is happening. Support survivors, share history, stand with people that are being targeted. We can defend the truth without turning the propaganda into the center of attention. The algorithm will tempt you. It will outrage you. It will make you want to respond and click that share button. That is what outrage marketing is. Your anger becomes their reach. Be smarter than that. Marina Crane (10:58.828) Be deliberate about what you amplify. Our people deserve dignity. Our country needs unity. And neither is strengthened by the mockery of the suffering of people's past. Anyways, that's my take. You stay deadly. That is Kelvin Stan Stay Deadly on TikTok. And his was Truth and Reconcili Reconciliation Under Attack, Residential School Denial, and the Second Sons. Now CBC just published also an article on this such a thing. And I don't know if I'm able to bring that up and and whether or not it's applicable. But Like I said, I woke up with anxiety and I was well, I wasn't too sure if it's anxiety or just feeling trapped. And and I think it's because like I did I don't comment like him, I don't comment on on videos because and and again too, I don't take part in marches because it's it's so triggering for me. because you know, I took care of my late mother for over a decade and and I saw the results of what Indian residential school did to her because she went in when she was five and left when she was like sixteen. So so just imagine like a life, her childhood taken away. And that's why I think I advocate when when predators, pedophiles or just people who sexually abuse children. That's why like when I talk about countries, how many countries and we even within our own political structure where the society allows adults to marry children and frown upon the marriages of two consenting gay people. Like I I the the reality of just how society looks the other way. And I think that's why I felt trapped 'cause I'm just like, I need some attention, I need to have somebody listen to me. Marina Crane (13:17.61) So and again I was very fortunate that I that I have different people that I can reach out to when I when I'm feeling such a way. It's Truth and Reconciliation Day, and I wanted to talk to you a little bit about how the legal system actually facilitated, perpetuated, and enabled the residential school system in Canada. So the first thing was the Indian Act itself. The Indian Act essentially at the time made First Nations people wards of the Crown, which gave the Crown control over their autonomy and control over what they could and could not do. And then when residential schools were brought in, it was actually a crime not to send your child to residential school. It was Required that children be sent to residential school and parents who refused to do it could be prosecuted criminally. In addition, later, as the residential school system grew and expanded, the government started to allow a pass system to be put in place. This was never something that was actually enacted into the law, but Indian agents would require First Nations people to get a pass from the Indian agent, essentially a permission slip. To go visit their children at the school, to go see their children. And again, this wasn't in the law, but nobody cared. And because until 1959, it was illegal in Canada for First Nations people to hire lawyers, they weren't able to hire anybody to challenge this law. They weren't allowed to do anything that would actually get it into court to say the actions of these people aren't part of the law that they created that we don't like anyway, and so they shouldn't be allowed to prohibit us from visiting our children. Make matters worse, the RCMP themselves were responsible for the enforcement of children's attendance at these schools. So not only would the Indian agents be involved in this, but the RCMP would be called in to apprehend children who ran away, to apprehend children who weren't sent, who were hidden, and they would pick up children and physically take them to or back to the residential school. So the RC and P were essentially facilitators of this system. And further, you also have the fact that it was illegal Marina Crane (15:20.024) For First Nations people to vote unless they wanted to give up their status. And so up until 1960, if you wanted to vote in a federal election, you had to give up your First Nations status, which meant that First Nations people weren't even enfranchised to vote for a political party who would get rid of the system that was oppressing them. This is all a legal structure that was in place. And even after residential schools closed, When First Nations people were finally able to hire lawyers and thought about bringing challenges to this and suing the federal government for creating this system, suing the perpetuators of the violence and the sexual abuse that went on in these schools, the government didn't allow it because there was a piece of legislation called the Crown Liability Act that meant the Crown couldn't be sued for harms that it had committed. And they relied and continued to rely even in recent days in court cases. On limitation periods against bringing lawsuits, saying you can't sue us for these things that we did because the too much time has passed. There's only a certain number of years that you can sue somebody for certain conduct that they've engaged in. And the Crown continued to rely on that, despite the fact that what they did was horrific and awful. So we've seen the harms of this not only be perpetuated into today's date, but the government continued to defend them in court in many, many recent years. And that's how the legal system has enabled, perpetuated, and created. facilitated and s essentially created the entire structure and architecture of residential schools in Canada. It's and her handle is K Kayla Lee, K-Y-L-A-L-E-E. And like I said, it it it's it's the reality that so much was taken away from my parents and my grandparents. And and a part of me sees it and has felt it and throughout my life. Like in class action lawsuits that I was eligible for. Now, I grew up in the city of Calgary not in the city of Calgary, but I went to school every day in public school and some private. I remember I was playing hooky when I was a teenager and I would go down to the Schinook Center or downtown Calgary, the Babe Parquade, like you know, just Marina Crane (17:29.903) cruising around in the city. And then when my parents broke up and my mother took us to Manitoba and I went to this isolated town that I mean, it was an old school, like I mean an old building. They didn't even have plumbing. You had to use a canister to you d relieve yourself. in the basement. and their their gymnasium was a huge ballroom. I was so appalled because I was like this princess coming from the city and coming to this small town and I the first day I ran away I played hooky. I the re I why I'm bringing up this story is in this what this lady was talking about, the RC and P were vital in in making sure the laws of the government were in place even when children ran away. And lo and behold, when I played hooky in this little small town Just west of of Brandon, Manitoba, the powers that be called the police. Like white people, you know, like I went to the house and because I did you know, I I I was smart enough to be and street smart, so I went to this house and th these in this little town, it's just a small little town, that these white people call the police. I mean they didn't call any tribal authorities, nothing. And so this whole mentality of you know, if you cannot if you cannot beat them, join them type of thing. So, you know, if you can't beat the Indian out of me then join the horse. But this anxiety or this entrapment that I felt after having to see and watch and listen to all the process of truth and reconciliation, it really it really hit home for me, even though I didn't think that it would have such a deep impact with me. And and like I said, it's Marina Crane (19:31.617) It's the reality of just what people are capable or incapable of doing or saying that that really really hit home for me. And Anyway, I d I did manage to like usually when I'm in a situation like this that I feel entrapped or just like like I have no control over something that I've lost control. Maybe it's as similar to learned helplessness or or self defeating behavior. Like there's this this enabl this learned helplessness, like the fact that you couldn't do anything and this is ingrained like generation after generation. And so my podcast and what I talk about in in giving myself the ability or the freedom to talk about how I feel, what I think about human sexuality, how I see society and how society sees me as a as a female. I I talked I have a I've got one more video here and this is from a fellow he's called the Goose Media. The underscore goose underscore media. You need to understand that there is an organized, well-funded effort to get you to hate Indigenous peoples. Whether it's the disgusting chuds at Rebel News selling worn shirts mocking dead children, or the Nazi fucks showing up with signs that say got bones, or BC MLA, Dallas Brute releasing a feature-length residential school denial documentary full of lies and bullshit. You don't think they would have noticed that some of their people went missing? That got over six hundred thousand views on YouTube. This is all happening because People with money see indigenous rights that are enshrined in our constitution, by the way, as getting in the way of them making even more money. Both the Rebel and Juno News have monetary ties to the fossil fuel industry. And guess who wants to build a pipeline through Indigenous territory? Yeah, that's right. The same people denying the climate crisis also deny residential schools were bad. What a coincidence. And let's not forget, Dallas Brody holds almost $50 million in real estate investments, so I'm sure land back scares you. Marina Crane (21:39.13) The shit out of her. These rich shitheads want you to see indigenous folks as the cause of your economic pain. If only they didn't have rights, then I'd be rich, they want you to think. But hey, whatever stops you from sharpening those deities. And this is how it's always worked. If you want to take other people's shit and still think of yourself as a good person, then you have to convince yourself that the other people are less than human. There were over 4,200 documented deaths at residential schools. These were children. Snatched up By an institution whose whole purpose was to kill the Indian in the child. Denying this was bad is a cope. Because I'm sure you could imagine what it's like to have your child leave your home and never come back. This isn't about guilt. This is about shared humanity. Because you have much more in common with the average indigenous person than the average billionaire stoking hate. like I I'm really grateful for social media because then they give me understand that there is because they give because they give me some insight. But at the same time too, like I I like I reach out and I was so like I I felt so alone and so trapped because I I didn't realize like all the triggers like just listening to and watching things that were happening with truth and reconciliation, not even reflecting on the fact of white supremacy. Okay, and and that hate. 'Cause like I said, I I I some I tune it out. But the reality of it is like how many like myself were triggered by by the amount of hate that was there? And so I reached out to some friends and my Marina Crane (23:28.051) I want to share a little content of the an ar a conversation I had with with a a a former classmate and and anyway here it goes. It it's still it's still painful for me to talk about it because unless you have lived through systemic racism and and basically have been yelling and saying, you're hurting me like emotionally and and you don't see it like I I I know a lot of people don't they want they don't want to feel it because it's so painful and most mostly I think it's it's maybe even more severe if if you've if the trauma is is so great, is so horrific. but but it but it is i it is important. It is important to to know these things. Well that's that's that's the human condition though. Like when even when I when I'm talking about bonding, you know people bonding to partners and this whole religiosity that that there's a forever like like especially Mormonism, you're gonna get sealed for time and all eternity and I'm going, No, no, no. Human human beings we we have it in our DNA to have form different bonds throughout our lives with several people, not just one. Yes. And and the reality of it is he has just we fall in and out of love on a regular basis. And and and for me, like when I say I haven't been sexually active in fifty years, imagine how many people I've fallen in love and out of love with without without being like without being physically like like sexual. Of course. And and I you know, and I try to explain that in in in my podcast and I try to explain that when it comes to like the concept of limerence and erotomania. And and I say for me Marina Crane (25:28.379) As a woman of color, when I'm talking to someone who isn't of my culture, I'm doing this concept of intimacy between erotic and limerence. I said and limerence is based on fantasy, and erotic is based on on like reality. So I said the closest I can do an analogy of erotomania is when a woman puts a restraining order against her husband because he's gonna keep Kill her because it's erotic it's erotic. Sexual. And when w in terms of limerence, when I talk about what it is to be indigenous to a white man, like it's like it's like a fantasy or an illusion. When they're listening to me as an indigenous woman, I'm going, No, I am telling my story. And and if you fall in love with the romance of it, like like Disney's you know these Disney princesses yeah the Pocahontas. And I'm going, No, that's the narrative that I've been born into. And and if you and if you get it or if you fall in love with that notion, that's part of that's part of limerence. And then when you when you embrace it and you realize like it's an illusion or a delusion, then you get it. You're just a person. you know looks at you and thinks, gee, you're I'm sexually attracted to you. But that's all it is. Yeah. Exactly. And the fact that you know people get scared of it are frightened of it. Yeah. Yeah. Like 'cause they don't have control. And I I think that's the whole thing too with all this happening with truth and reconciliation and this disassociating because sometimes when you're afraid to be intimate or you're afraid afraid of the the physical intimacy, you you want to you want to run and hide like a scared child. Marina Crane (27:36.644) But but these feelings are just normal feelings. They're at some point it became bastardized or unhealthy or something that you know like it's sexual and that's bad. It's bad, it's a sin. And I'm like, No, no. I'm trying to deal with this and understand it as as a senior indigenous woman and it and explain to people it's okay. It's okay it's okay to be sexually attracted to someone as because like my parents used to say, It ain't over till we're six feet underground. We have to deal with our feelings and our emotions and that's why when I woke up and I felt anxiety and I'm going am I disassociating what I'm going through? What what is it that I'm feeling? And I I I need to talk to somebody because process it a bit Yes. Yes, exactly. And I appreciate you helping me process it's Yeah. See and that's why I I say to people, find someone you trust. Find someone who can talk to you so that way, you know, you're you're not being like a hu like a be perceived as somebody who like like that that it's my problem. See see Sheree like when when I talk like this to other indigenous women, I've I've had to give up friendships since since my since I've gone to the sentencing of Nathan Chasing horse. And like like I I one of the ladies, throughout the the time that I've known her, like she'll she'll make comments that, you know, when she when we're talking she says, well don't kill yourself and I'm going, What leads you to believe what I've talked about means I'm gonna kill myself. Marina Crane (29:30.647) And I'm going, how can people exactly where did it come from? And and then I I stop step back away from a conversation for a couple of months, then I start talking again. And then just last month, she gets on the phone and she says, Marina, kill yourself. Take a pill. And I said, Yes. She's she was coaching meeting to to kill myself. Marina Crane (30:01.367) I'm sorry that my buzzer has gone off. I'm just going to fix that. I should have done that, sorry. Marina Crane (30:16.053) And say. And I said, That's illegal to do that. Yes. And it it really made me think like where is her mental health? How d how she disassociated life that she could hate women so much, her own gender, that she can say this to another female, another human. Yes. Wow. Terrible. Well I I That is not somebody you can trust the dog to for sure not. Well, she's been you know, I blocked her and she's been trying to get a hold of me and I'm just going, No You know, it's like my three strikes you're out, this I if I become that's that's as bad of a thing as you can say to somebody. Exactly. Really? And the reality is she's like sixty five years old. You know, at at one at what point at what point do you have survival skills for your own children, your own grandchildren? when you're behaving like this to another human being? Yes. Yeah. See the thing, Sharia, is like I I don't need to be rescued. Like I you know when I when I tell my story to people, I I you know I it's it's like I I'm I'm telling my story but I don't need to be rescued. I just need to be understood. Yeah. Yes, yeah. Everybody wants to be the savior, right? That's pretty annoying. Well that that's why like the the one white lady, like I said to her, don't drink for six months. Maybe your cholesterol will improve and then she ghosted me. Right. She didn't want to hear it. She didn't want to hear it and then I have another lady, the lady says, Marina, she misses your friendship and I said, No. I said I said the amount of therapy that I've given her and for her to abuse my skill set. Yes. I said, the only thing that would mean anything is if she actually paid me for my time. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm kidding, Well, it's it's to put boundaries down because Marina Crane (32:29.107) I I know my I know my worth, three and and I really exactly appreciate like our friendship and just I'm just grateful you're on the phone. I do too. That you've been on the phone with me. You know, I I I go through so much in my life and I just you know, sometimes I just wish I just wish that, you know, I had to I I I don't know. I it it I'm just grateful, like I said. Yeah. It's not many people that you can stay friends with for so long. You know? Not you know, not many people's defense for years and years and years. Gosh since since university, my gosh, how many years ago? Thirty. I know when I when I when I try to Yes, and like I said, it create like like I said, my mother lesser heart says everything is guided. And and and I think too when I when I talk on my podcast and I encourage people of of all genders and races. races to you know to talk about your trauma to talk about you know what hurts you and yeah find a safe place and and and let people know yes yes for for me for me when you have all these thousands of people that were my like my parents' age my grandparents who who talked and talked and nobody listened to Right. You know, they're gonna destroy I think over I don't know how many thousands of of disclosures of Indian residential school in twenty twenty seven. And and when I put my podcast out I'm I'm s I'm saying a story and I'm saying I'm putting it out there because the survivors of Indian residential school, those children who didn't have the ability to talk about what happened to them. Yes. I said I said a little bit, yeah. Marina Crane (34:38.865) Yes, and that I'm trying to use my voice as an example that that it's important to to talk about it, but to to let people know these things happened. Yes. And that we still we still need need some some sort of closure or help in in processing things. You know, I when I went to Las Vegas, this white guy came with me. Yes and And like they cancelled and the following month we went back down again. And then he says, this is this is closure for me and I said, Well it's closure for me too. But you know, for whatever closure he had to deal with, mine was different. And and you know the the reality of it is like just to him being there, same saying to me, Marina, he she says, you know, for everything that you've done, this wouldn't have happened. And and all I did in my blog was to to let people know, victims know, there's no statute of limitations. You can tell your story, have the courage sometime where you can just tell people somebody is hurting you. And the The fact that that a young woman did that on Facebook and got this man prosecuted and the ripple of that Yes. You know, even though you think you may not even make a difference, yeah. Exactly. And then f to have a white guy look you know, say to me, Marina, you made that difference. Sure. I look I try to tell people even my own brothers couldn't do that. And even the men in my community couldn't do this for me. But it took it took a white man to do this for me. Yeah, yeah. No one would Marina Crane (36:35.353) come with you or support you or help you. at least somebody came with you. You know what you did that by yourself. You found you find your people that can do what they can do for you, right? Sometimes your family can't. I like the way you said your people. 'Cause it is. It is like. Yeah, you find your own f yeah, your own people that do what you need them to do at the time. You need them to do them. Yes. That's what you know that's what makes us human, this human family. Yes, exactly. And it doesn't matter what color your people have. Exactly. And I think that's why it it's so easy for women who project their like their disassociation, we'll use this big word, onto onto other women as if that woman will never experience that. And I'm going, no, like I'm I've experienced I've experienced it, but you're not listening. you're not understanding, you're not embracing it. Yeah. You're projecting something onto me that that like I like I have to shake it off. Yes. Yeah. well. Marina Crane (37:59.672) I I think that whole point too is that that shaking it off is is shaking off those triggers, those those things that like say with this white supremacy that was going on and just the whole reality of hate, hate that that people want to infringe on on my rights. not realizing like the the battle I've had to to fight my whole life. And and it's not like like if people understood the whole concept then Marina Crane (38:35.215) I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Marina Crane (38:48.897) So sorry for that. It it's like I have a meeting coming up and it's reminding me that I have to get off the podcast here. But but I I think the whole point was I I needed to ha I woke up and I felt trapped. And and the the metaphor for that is like all the laws, all the laws that were built in that still exist today, that that still have control or governance over me. And and the fact that there are so many people who don't understand that and just look at it as like, no, sh you know, th she ought to be doing something different. And I'm saying to my friend Cherie, I'm going, How can I do something different when I'm a human being with all these feelings? And emotions, but yet people don't understand the whole history, the whole concept of just like the attachment or the lack of attachment or or the disassociation or like the like when I talk about ritual abuse and I talk about the trauma, the extreme trauma children go through, to the point where they develop multiple personalities through disassociation. And and as they grow up and and and sort of every time there's a trigger, they morph into a different personality. And like I went to a ritual abuse conference and I the lady there had thirteen or fourteen different personalities and her child was was just horrific and the the extent of what happened within her own family structure and just the university and the police and the whole the whole reality of psychology and what's the underbelly what's the underbelly in terms of humanity in terms of ritual abuse and how it manifests itself. So even when I say look at look at how many Marina Crane (40:38.497) how many societies allow adults to marry children? That that is the ripple effect or the shadow effect of ritual abuse and the abuse that that people perpetuate without with and trying to have coercive control over the most vulnerable. And the reality of it is as a woman, when we do not heal, we become participants in it. Like the the one lady social media and she was talking about her father and what her father did to her and how her mother enabled her. And it went on to a generation where they wanted to have possession of her own children so that they could also participate and take advantage of their grandchildren. This is intergenerational trauma. And and for for it to trigger me in the sense that, you know, I like I I'm just grateful for the parents I've had. But I I can't comprehend what they've went through. And and I think that's the hardest thing to to realize. They were just children, they were just babies. And and the fact that seeing all this, seeing everybody you know, walking and the reality like acknowledging that something horrific happened. Something horrific happened. And and that's why when I think about my parents being babies, scared, scared, and I'm going, how come nobody was there to help them? Not only that, but my aunts and uncles and even my grandmother. I haven't had that. I'm grateful that I had my parents. I'm grateful for having my friend Cherie that I could call up. You have to understand this. Cherie is l when we're talking, she's she's she's in Hong Kong. Marina Crane (42:39.511) So like I like I said, there's different people I've met throughout my life and I'm I didn't realize just how triggering this whole this truth and reconciliation what it what it was what it was doing until I woke up in the middle of the night and I wondered what what's happening. It's just like when I moved back from the States, I my first night home I in the middle of the night I woke up and I was going, What's going on? I sat there in complete silence and I thought, No, I'm it's silent. There were no street cars, no rumbling, no vibration. I lived so I lived in such a dense population that my body and my s mindset became accustomed to all that noise. And and for me, like I woke up because there was no there was no noise. There was just complete silence and and that was scary. And and I think that's the whole thing too about what what triggers people, especially when you're listening to the stories and the trauma and you get re-triggered. And it's not that I that I no know the individual who's telling the story. It's the fact that I've heard it throughout my life from my parents and my aunties and you know my siblings and and just like victims like when when my niece Roberta started disclosing about Nathan Chasing horse. I just I I like it's just overwhelming. It was overwhelming. And and the fact that it exists and the reason I do my podcast is is so that people realize like it's it's if if we don't deal with it Marina Crane (44:32.547) then we we we carry it with us. We carry it with us. And so for for me, anything that I could do to to deal with this feeling like where did it come from? It was created before I was even born. And this systemic racism, we have to mend it and reconstruct it. And talking about the you know the the racism, the those the those white men who had the audacity to show up at in Kamloop. You know, and people denying all this stuff and the reality is like the social media or just the whole context of artificial intelligence pushing pushing hatred to w because there's so many people online who are who are putting in that like alg rhythm. And that's the critical part of everything when we talk about like our choices, our critical thinking and and what it is that we need to talk about because for everything that we do has a ripple effect. It's just so what Marina Crane (45:46.294) I I'm just it's like it's like when you're a victim and something happens to you and I'm trying to get this done but I'm unable to. So if I can any any little thing that in terms of This is my conversation with with you have no control with something with my ch w like I went to university with her. But I I just wanted to put the last one out because I do think I do think like I said, it's an unconscious thing. It's like I said, like I woke up and I was expecting sound when I first moved back home. And and this this morning, early this morning I woke up and I'm going, why am I feeling this way? And the reality of it is like it was because I was triggered. I was triggered all day and I put out the podcast earlier to deal with it. I thought I dealt with it, but but it's the whole notion of just how much How much of it is out there? And and that even though people are walking and you know saying, yes, we're we're acknowledging the reality of of this genocide, there there are still laws, reactive laws in government today that just doesn't deal with the things that we need to deal with. And and I'm grateful for whatever politicians sort of ease it into their system their their agenda, because how else are things going to change? How else are we going to deal with things if if we don't have people in political positions to have the courage to to to be advocates, to to help us help us in in in monitoring and dealing with the things that we have to deal with or we need to deal with. See, I'm doing this on my own. I'm not being coerced into doing it. I'm not there's no monetary gain for me. The reality of it is this is this is the reality of so many indigenous people. So many indigenous people who cannot articulate the way I am t articulating. And I'm doing this for my audience and my podcast because it's important. Like my my friend Sheree, when she talks about the reality of of like the the duality of of wearing your skin. Marina Crane (48:07.727) Now I I'm not too sure why I can't get this going because I do have to get ready to go to my meeting and I'm not too sure if I'll be able to do it on time. and I'm sorry that I if I knew how to edit my podcast I would do it, but I I just don't and and I'm sorry that I that I have I use all this technical difficulty happening. But if I could put it online then it it would help. It would definitely help and life and technology. But again, hooray for technology. I wouldn't have I wouldn't have such a way of dealing with things. Let's see if I can do this. like well well yeah well like You know, people peop people talking about like laws that we have no control over. You know, like it's like it's like when you're a victim and something happens to you and you have no control over how people treat you. And and so any any any little thing that in terms of things that happen during the day where you have no control over it, it it trigger it it just the ripple effect of the trigger. So that's why I woke up Marina Crane (49:44.964) Well well it's like I I listen to the this one lady and she she's a social influencer. And to find out that her pair her parents trafficked her, 'cause a lot of stuff that I do for my podcast has to do with trafficking. And then and then even over the weekend when I I went out to the casino and I went into the bathroom and I saw that at least six young indigenous girls there were prostitutes. And and I came out and I said to my cousin, there are prostitutes in the bathroom. She said, Yes. And and like how much helplessness do I feel as a indigenous elder woman seeing these young indigenous girls doing this? And then and then realizing like like they're they're unable to live their lives freely and then here I am I woke up and I thought you know I I have I have a a bill that I've got to pay just a simple bill shury and then I'm going okay I can straighten it out when I when the office is open and then I thought wait a minute why am I feeling this anxiety it's because I have no control over it right now And so so I'm saying, okay, how many people have been triggered that are survivors of Indian residential school or know like their parents or somebody that you feel this learned helplessness and the the thing about it is like there's a psychological turn called disassociation where where where you you know like you sort of yeah, so you're you're more of it's like it's like when you're sexually assaulted and you know you you know something's happening to you physically but you Marina Crane (51:34.893) Yeah that Yeah, I so taking myself someplace else. And and then I thought, wait, all day yesterday, that's what I was doing. And that's the reality, like like Shari thousands of people were marching yesterday before yesterday or yesterday wearing orange and I've never seen that many people being aware. And it and it's it's sad because because this should have d been happening when my parents were children. And like this one lady who was trafficked by her family, she says she says, I overcompensated with my own daughter. She says, My own parents wanted to take my my daughter away from me. And these are people who are unc who are consciously aware that they want money and they're using their children to be trafficked. And this woman, she says, I overprotected my daughter and she's got anxiety now. Yeah, and then I think Okay. Okay. Marina Crane (52:51.489) Okay. Okay, okay. See my friend my like I said, sh I my friend it was in Hong Kong. Okay, yeah. so yeah, it's just the it's the reality, Cherie. Like I haven't felt this way and then I thought, no, it's part of healing. It's the reality that these triggers are happening and I can like I can talk to you about it and and I can say, Okay, I'm just associating. I can feel it. But but it's I I I think the reality of it is like the anxiety and why is it that I have that? And then I think about this young influencer saying like her parents wanted to get custody of her fifteen year old daughter and knowing that she was trafficked by her parents and that the reality is like her grandparents would traffic her own daughter. Marina Crane (53:52.965) Like that's the grandparents trafficking the do the grandchild. That that I can understand that her daughter has anxiety because she was trying to over be overprotective. And then when I think about my own anxiety, and I think hopefully my my parents did this, but I don't think they were aware that they were doing this to me. Yes. Because they hadn't really dealt with their own trauma. Right. It sounds so convoluted and so complicated but yet you know it it has a meaning to it. But you know, it's it's like at least the the awareness is positive before, right? That's that's the reality of it and that's what's so scary. It's scary it's scary in the sense that, you know, when we talk about you know, like say victims of violence or we talk about people who have coercive control over other people. But it's the it's the reality that the government had this much power over generations of of indigenous people that is that is is the shock or the reality of it. Yes. And our people are consciously aware of it today as a country. Yeah. Hmm. And I was like, you know, it's interesting. Like I I because I'm so far away these days, right? But you know, I talked to my sister the other day and she was, you know, she mentioned that her daughter was looking to for her orange clothes because she couldn't go out without wearing orange. And I was like, huh? Why orange? You know, because I'm I'm not in it, I don't see it, right? Yeah. And then I like, okay, like she she mentioned it and then, you know, so I'm like, even then she's so young, but it was important to her. You know, she's nineteen. I think that's good. Like this new generation is, you know, more aware. I don't know, there's something good about them, you know, either way. Marina Crane (55:59.855) Yeah, it I think that's positive. In and yet we have so many white supremacists who who are saying that there that these things did happen. Yes. And and a lot of as long as there's both sides, I mean how the good side outweighs the bad. Well, that's the reality of it. Like when I voice my opinion, it it's like I'm doing this freely, but yet the reality is is that you know, people are afraid. Like people are still afraid because it triggers them. I I know like like like I said, my I saw it with my parents and my my my aunts and uncles. You know, I saw that I saw that to like don't don't fear. Yeah, they're fear. And then and even though like It's it's not like it's not flight or fright or like violence. You don't see it but it's pr it permeates, you can sense it here. And and that's why when I woke up and I got triggered, I'm going, No, this it it's like the reality like I'm okay, I'm safe, there's n nobody's coming to harm me. And and it it's a dyso dissociative process. But yet but yet like it's like waking up from a bad dream and going, No, this didn't happen. But yet but yet like for me it's a fallacy and a illusion or delusion because I'm not being victimized. I'm I'm just it's just a trigger. Yes, yes. And that's that's you know how many like African American Americans I have talked to in Ghana who say they come to Ghana and they're black like everybody else and they're feeling the weight off their shoulders is so huge that if they can finally relax. Yes, that's I think you know that's the the you hit it on the nose is the ability to relax and here we are in Canada. Like where can you go? You can't go anywhere. This your country. Yes. I you can't go to the motherland. It's not there. It doesn't exist. You're in it. You're where you're Marina Crane (58:09.916) supposed to be and still you can never take that weight off because it's the you're always carrying it. Yes. And and and the nature of it, Cherie, is like because you're white and I'm indigenous, there's gonna always be this this constant dance of intimacy. And yet if if there's if it's so unequal, how are you going to deal how are you going to comprehend it if you're you can't even comprehend what I'm going through. So I I appreciate I appreciate the narrative about Ghana because that's exactly you hit it right on the nose. Where where is that freedom? It's very not I always think about that because they they all say the same story. Like I've heard it hundreds of times from hundreds of people and they all say when they get to Ghana and especially they say it takes them a week or two weeks and they start to like it un they un get unburdened and then the next time like the first time they're driving a car and a police officer pulls them over, there's a person, you know? Yeah. They're not a black person anymore, they're just a person. And then they go, I it's and then after that happens, a few more things happen then they realize, I'm just a person here. I'm not a black woman, I'm not a black man, I'm just a person. They get to release that. Yes. And and I think that's part of the reason why I like staying home. I d I have a really difficult time going out even into certain spaces. Because like is it safe? Do I feel safe? Marina Crane (59:54.702) You should come to China, everyone will think you're Chinese. Some place some place where like a not sticking out like a sore thumb. It's you know, and and the reality of it is like like my my nieces and nephews and just the children are are are growing up in this environment. And that's what's so so disheartening. 'Cause there's no fairy tale. There's no you know, there's nothing to create the you know to protect them. It's it's just systemic racism. Yeah, yeah. They need to they you need to come and hang up in like Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, China. No one will know you're even they will just think you're a local. You don't stand out at all. No one would know, seriously. No one would wouldn't bat an eyelid at you. Well it's it's We weirdly but it's true. Yes. I but see that's see when my parents traveled when I was eight ten ten years old and and even though they were traveling with white people, I do think they saw they saw something like some sort of freedom. And and you know, and that like probably the white people that were getting the weird attention and they were probably getting ignored because they look like everybody else. Exactly. But yet when they came home the the the experience like you know how my father passed away e and my mother like just dealing with having to talk about her experience in those places. Yeah. That and that's Yeah, exactly. And that's the the hard part is like like this social this lady who's on social media, she's just a young woman, Cherie. And then I think she had she was trafficked. And her her advocacy for indigenous ways of knowing is just so profound 'cause she's a huge influencer here. And then and to realize like the trauma she lived through as a child. When when here I am, like I'm I'm I'm seventy four and the reality of it is like it's still happening. Marina Crane (01:02:13.411) Yes. How and and yet we you know, like how the awareness is out there and people know these things are happening. But they're not stopping it. Exactly. They're not stopping it. Yeah. Most of the most of the time when I talk about ritual abuse I say, you know, there there's so many countries in the world that allow adults to marry children. I say and that's the surface of ri ritual abuse that we're so consciously a aware that you know men are doing things to children. Yes, yes. You know, at the same time too, y you like when when I take a a look at the the bigger picture and I'm trying to say to people this isn't just an indigenous issue. This is this is a human a human rights issue for everybody. But when when I love China it's death penalty. They give you the they give you the death penalty for child abuse. Love it. It killed like three people last week. I love it. See I mean there's tricks, but I love to Yeah, and the conce like for people to realize like when I do my podcast and I say things that adults do to children is are unforgivable. And but you but unless you have the death penalty i it it's just like poo poo. It's like it's it's an illusion or a delusion. This isn't really happening. And I'm going, No. The the the the child has to deal with this their entire life. There's the rest of their life, yeah. Yes. Like in MC But I mean if there's real consequences, it sure makes people think twice. Yes. But but if the whole world had these kind of consequences It would help. Yes, it would help. That's why when when when I make statements about the choices I made in my life not to be sexually active and I the one lady, well you're like a nun and I'm going don't no, don't put put religion on it. I mean you need I made this choice out of safety. Marina Crane (01:04:19.787) Yes, yes. And and and here I am, I'm still living in this life and you know, it's it's really difficult to to even be in a relationship because a lot of times I think men just have this attitude towards about about women on going, no, you the it's it's such a like how how do how do we just I don't think it changed it. Yeah change that narrative, yeah. But you know, again, like it's just so so steep in like we'll say in European culture. Yes, yes, absolutely. I agree. Yeah, 'cause I I agree. And and then, you know, to to try and talk to people about it who just live in it and think it's normal. And I'm going, no, you don't realize that you're projecting that onto other people. Yes, exactly. Marina Crane (01:05:30.997) Exactly. But I well So even though it might seem like a like what is what is Marina doing? She's got anxiety. What the heck? Sheree, I'm just glad you're listening to me because like it makes me makes me happy that you thought to call me. I'm I'm honored, you know? Well my I think that's really nice. Well thank you because I I don't know, I just I I truly believe like creator, we we like everything is is guided. And and for me to talk about disassociation and like it it's one thing like I I had a white friend and she ghosted me. we we met since the pandemic and I I made a comment to her about her drinking 'cause she she said sh her a her cholesterol was high. And I said to her, Well quit drinking for six months and maybe you'll s see a change and she ghosted me. And yet and yet when I when I try talking to her about disassociation and she projects that onto me as if like she's well she's going for doing the same thing. Yeah, because she's a she's in a position of white privilege. And and I'm going, no, this disassociation isn't just something that happens to indigenous women. It happens to human beings. Of course, of course. And to to run to run away like fright or fright. Yeah, it's normal. Yes. So I I d I don't I Marina Crane (01:07:18.108) you know I don't know how many times I say that to people, like when people say, Chinese people do this, I go, All people do that. Both people do that. In the whole world, I always am saying that. Or when I'm in Gava and people say, you know us, yeah, we do this as it everybody does that. White people do that too. Everybody does it. Yes. Chinese people do it, black people do it, white people do it. I would I it they don't Hello? So I I just wanted to end that there because like I I have sort of mixed the conversation Sheree and I had, but it was important for me to put it on the podcast because like she said, there's a death penalty in China for adults who sexually abuse children. The the reasoning or the intensity or the heaviness of it is the reality that in Canada, if this were China and this whole experience of genocide that happened in residential schools and all those children that were hurt hurt, how many of the priests and sisters and clergymen would have had the death penalty? Or even people who worked in these institutions, how many of them would have been executed? Now people could do some self-reflection and say, well China. Well you even look at Tibet and you look at the Dalai Lama and all the sexual abuse that that had been occurring has been occurring there. So these these things that we talk about affect every human being, every every rock walk of life. And and for having a group of white boys h covering their faces and and parading around that they have such privilege is a reflection on their society and how much denial they're in denial of their own capabil incapac they're incapable. They're it they incapacitate themselves into the structure of what they're contributing to their own society. It it's it's like a Marina Crane (01:09:26.372) what do call ping pong? You know, the ball keeps on getting hitting hitting back and forth and never really finding the goal because because again, what does it say about about that, about white privilege or even even systemic racism or or racism in itself? To have this illusion or delusion of power over another group of people. And and for me as being that person they have control over and for me to have been raised in it is very triggering. It's it's like like when you when you s you when you're a child and you light a candle and and you look at the flame and you touch it and you get burnt. Well that's a trigger. That's a trigger response because you know that that's painful, it's gonna hurt. So when I see white supremacists, I I know I know it you know, like it it's a trigger. But unless you've actually lived it, like emeshed in it, like like Cherie said, you know, you have black Americans who go to Ghana and it takes at least a week to two weeks to feel human, to feel at peace and to pe feel like another, just a human being, not a person of color. And yet here I am in Canada, I live in my community because I feel like it's an oasis. I just deal with what I have to deal with with people I've grown up with. I don't have to deal with people who like like in terms of the city, if there's systemic racism, if if there is some dialogue that needs to happen, I I will I will step to the challenge. I I will step to the plate and I I will have a conversation with you. And and however that conversation comes out is is based on your own set of life skills or set of skills. Because it takes it takes people who actually have boundaries and mental health boundaries that can actually dig into the reality of what it's like to be that other person. What what what is happening to that other person? I i is that person who's telling the story truthful? Marina Crane (01:11:39.374) can you trust them? Are they good people? And under your definition of what is a good person? So these things like are important and unless you have those the reflection or the ability to have some sort of discourse that that can trigger people, that makes people feel uncomfortable, well that's the whole point of of dismantling systemic racism, that challenge. And then for that person to bear witness, and it's not just Like it's one thing to say and think you can bear witness, but it's a harsh reality when it when you have to bear witness to your own self defeating behavior. And a lot of people who who want to dismantle their own self-defeating behavior, that's the point of triggers where they just abandon me or ghost me. Or just say, well she's not religious. She's not a good person because she doesn't follow my religious ideologies or my political ideologies. That's what I'm talking about in terms of holding space by just respecting the other person's values and beliefs as theirs. That it works for them and they're not hurting anybody. In fact, they're protecting the most vulnerable women and children. So again, in order to hold space as well as bear witness to have the courage to stand by a victim and believe their narrative. To stand by the victim and believe their narrative. And I say it again, to stand by that victim. That victim could could have had the most horrific childhood experience. And as you're standing by them, you're standing by them as elderly people who've carried this trauma their entire lives. And you're standing there bearing witness to the injustice by hearing and listening to their stories. That's what's so triggering about all this. Marina Crane (01:13:39.317) I took care of my mother as her primary caregiver for over a decade. Marina Crane (01:13:47.361) And I how much more can I even express? I I don't have a magic wand. I can't erase my mother's life. I can't erase all the trauma she experienced. Nor can I even comprehend my grandmother. It's just horrific and to know this history, to know how horrible people treated indigenous women and still do to this day. It's I'm sorry, but it's just so heartbreaking. Marina Crane (01:14:32.353) It's so heartbreaking. And yet and yet we have to talk about it. You know, we have to talk about the genocide. 'Cause it happens today all over the world. Marina Crane (01:14:48.641) You know, it's it's I used to as a child see my grandmothers, my I couldn't even comprehend my great grandmother. But to know that they lived in a time where they were hunted. Physically hunted. Hunted. I mean like indigenous girls, like kids are being hunted and trafficked. But this is this is like the Wild West where they physically were chased. and and caught if they were pregnant, they they the the the prize catch was like a rare animal to find a Dakota woman who's pregnant and and kill her, gut her, scalp the b unborn baby and as well as the mum and take it to some hick town in South Dakota or North Dakota to collect bounty. And that women were were ki were hunted that way. The thousands of women right now what they say there's over fourteen thousand children Who ha who were reported to have been killed in these Indian residential schools. That's just recorded. We're not talking about those records that that the Indian agent or or the residential school principal or administrator d deliberately destroyed. The history of genocide is so profound. And I think that's why for me it's so triggering because I'm aware of it. I'm aware of it. And yet it's not common knowledge and we have so many people who are trying to deny that these things happen. And and why are they denying it? 'Cause they can do harm to me? They can do harm to my nieces and nephews, my siblings, my relatives, my neighbors. You know, I I fear for a lot of our young young people who have a lot of anger management issues, who go out there and they meet these horrible people and they get murdered. I just, you know, I or assaulted. I think the worst thing, you know, I used to say, if I ever was sexually assaulted again, I would kill my perpetrator. Marina Crane (01:16:55.245) And this one lady looked at me and and I said, No, I said the lateral violence and the way people look at me and talk about me was harder than the actual assault. And the fact that this was triggering that I had to live through that, I would sooner defend myself by killing my perpetrator. And and I think that's the the danger of of what's happening is that there are a lot of angry young people, indigenous young people, who are tired of this systemic racism. And and I do believe that there are so many people with white fragility who aren't educated and don't understand the complexities of intergenerational trauma. So a lot of and maybe in some ways it's a bias for me that this podcast i is directed to indigenous youth, more so than strangers from other countries or immigrants or or white people. It it's it's a it's a lesson that that we have to understand ourselves first and heal first. If we can do these things and have the strength and tenacity to feel our emotions, to understand the complexities of us just being human beings. To be in a society where we're constantly policed, constantly projected on as like they know me without knowing me. I'm just grateful for my friend Cherie in Hong Kong who has you know, she she helps out in Ghana with in education and and that the reality of how many people she she lives with that are multicultural and the fact that people feel it and sense it because when they're out of the environment they they can sense something is different. Marina Crane (01:18:55.467) And and just for that just for that experience of of j how they feel is is a rarity. A rarity in itself. So so for me, opening up my house to a white man for the past three years in in just talking and texting and having dialogue and even having allowing him to accompany me to Las Vegas is a profound experience I'm sure for him. And the reality of like feeling like that uncomfortableness being a white man. and the reality, the tenacity to to understand that and to to engage in it and to breathe it i is something that that I hopefully a lot of those young white supremacists who are s who are racist have the courage to be like this white man. B come into an environment where you feel uncomfortable. G have the courage to you know have some boundaries and understand an environment that is so foreign to you. A concept of of living and culturally living in in in something that has been existing s in existence for thousands of years, to document it. Like do do people understand the nature of what Creator has been blessing us with? It's Like I I'm I'm just totally grateful that I can do this podcast. And and as much as as much as I could say, Yes, I hate I hate these these racists, these sons of anarchy or whatever the hell they want to call themselves. But it but it doesn't do me any good. And and the thing is like what thirty y some odd years ago, the the week my niece was born, my my childhood friend's daughter got into an accident and she died. And her the father was interviewed on TV and he told he told people who were watching the news that he forgave the person who was in the car that killed her his daughter. And the people were like, how could he forgive? Marina Crane (01:21:09.899) And and and that's the whole notion of of the reality of inviting someone from another culture into your space, in into your narrative and to have the tenacity to you know, to interact, to get to know each other and to broaden your horizons, especially mine. Like I like I said, I'm seventy four and I'm constantly learning and it's important. Because if we do not bridge I don't wanna use the word bridge but like like sh like the analogy of Cherie when she said black Americans going to Ghana and it takes about a week or two weeks to feel completely at peace and and human instead of being a test subject. So with that that's why I'm saying when you're both from two different c different cultures and you're both test subjecting each other, you know, you y ye the tenacity, like you we have to work. We have to step up to the challenge. So anyway, I have to I'm already late for my appointment. I know this podcast was interrupted with a bunch of my my phone going off and dingy linging and but My hats off to my friend Cherie and to, you know, all the people that I've met throughout my life. And we'll continue to we'll continue to meet. and to people who are out there who have had the tenacity to actually live in in with indigenous people. Not only just working with indigenous people, but actually going into our communities, First Nations, Inuit and Metis communities. Like that's the one thing that people don't understand. You know, you have people who are pretending to be indigenous, but but do these people actually know what it's like? You know, there are so many people who are not indigenous who Marina Crane (01:23:16.153) who who know what it's like because they've had the they've allowed themselves to come into our communities and actually live in our First Nations Inuit and Metis communities, who have actually spent time and and friendships and made relatives with with indigenous people. Like that's how you you understand what it means to be indigenous. Not not pretending by stealing my story or any other body's else's story. 'Cause these stories are very triggering and how we process these triggers, even though we might not be aware of it. Like right now I'm talking in terms of a podcast. Probably tonight I'll, you know, wake up and I'm going, What did I do? What did I say in this podcast? What triggered me? Everything we do and say has consequences. So I I'm hoping what I do and say in my podcast is enlightening to people and and understanding the struggle of what it is to to even be in an environment where where you're you're you're shunned and and you're looked upon as as as something different, as as a savage, lower than the snake's belly, as my mother used to say, because in indigenous language there's no swear words. So the lowest thing you can call somebody is lower than a snake's belly. So so when you're son of anarchy you're you're lower than a snake's belly because you're slithering. Lower than that snake's belly. How are you gonna how are you going to rise above that and become a human being? Marina Crane (01:24:57.569) Okay, so that's my gist on anger towards systemic racism and power power and in and and more in empowerment to all those who are fighting systemic racism. I appreciate you, I I acknowledge you and and I wish you a good day. Keep the battle going, life's worth living and and whether or not you understand it, it it helps me realize like you told me th this is what my this is this is how I grew up. These are the things my my parents had no say over in how they their values and beliefs growing up in those horrific places. But as a as the descendant and a child of them and as a product of the system, I'm trying to do the best I can to educate you.