"women are a thousand times more narcissistic than men"

Thank you for sharing the transcript. I hear several intertwined themes in Marina Crane's reflection, and they seem to be less about any single video and more about making sense of decades of experience, trauma, community dynamics, accountability, and personal boundaries. A few themes stand out: 1. Boundaries and self-protection One of the strongest threads is Marina's explanation of why she has chosen to distance herself from certain people in her community. Her argument is that self-respect sometimes requires limiting contact with people whose behavior she experiences as harmful, manipulative, dismissive, or chronically unhealthy. Whether someone agrees with all of her conclusions or not, the underlying message is clear: Healing is not just forgiveness. Sometimes healing includes boundaries. 2. Narcissism as a framework Marina uses narcissism as a lens through which she interprets many experiences: community conflicts family dynamics enabling behavior public figures abusive relationships responses to accountability One thing worth noting is that some of the speakers she cites make very broad claims about women, men, narcissism, and parenting. Those claims are opinions rather than established psychological facts. For example, statements such as: "women are a thousand times more narcissistic than men" women are primarily responsible for violent sons certain gender traits explain most social problems are not conclusions supported by mainstream psychological research. What does align with established psychology is the broader idea that: unresolved trauma can influence parenting, people sometimes avoid self-reflection, shame can produce defensiveness, unhealthy family patterns can repeat across generations. 3. The Nathan Chasing Horse experience A significant emotional center of the transcript is Marina's processing of the events surrounding Nathan Chasing Horse. What comes through is that she sees: grooming, coercive influence, community denial, failures of accountability, and harm to vulnerable young people as examples of what happens when power goes unquestioned. Her reflections suggest she is still trying to understand not only the actions of the perpetrator, but also why so many people ignored warning signs. 4. Self-reflection versus blame An interesting tension appears throughout the podcast. On one hand, Marina emphasizes personal responsibility and self-reflection. On the other hand, many parts of the discussion focus heavily on the failures of other people. The most constructive takeaway may actually be the one she repeats several times: "You have to look at yourself." That idea is consistent with many therapeutic approaches. Growth often begins when people ask: What are my patterns? Why do I keep entering similar situations? What am I tolerating? What boundaries do I need? 5. Trauma, colonization, and Indigenous identity The transcript repeatedly connects present-day struggles to: intergenerational trauma, colonial violence, missing and murdered Indigenous women, systemic racism, cultural disruption, and the loss of traditional community structures. Whether one agrees with every interpretation offered, Marina's perspective is clearly rooted in the belief that historical harms continue to shape current social realities. 6. Love, limerence, and attachment The section discussing Helen Fisher's work shifts the conversation in an important direction. The idea there is that: romantic attraction can feel addictive, rejection can intensify obsession, emotional attachment affects brain reward systems, and people often confuse different experiences such as: attraction, limerence, attachment, sex, and love. This seems central to Marina's larger message that understanding ourselves is essential before we can build healthy relationships. My overall impression At its core, this transcript feels like a personal attempt to answer the question: "What have I learned after decades of living through trauma, conflict, grief, community politics, and advocacy?" Marina's answer appears to be: protect your boundaries, examine your own behavior, don't ignore warning signs, healing takes work, love should not require self-betrayal, and accountability matters more than appearances. Even where some specific claims about narcissism, gender, or psychology are debatable, the deeper message is a call for self-awareness, personal responsibility, and community healing. If you'd like, I can also provide a more formal thematic analysis of the transcript, separating evidence-based psychological concepts from personal interpretations and opinions.

Marina Crane (00:01.378) Good afternoon. it's a little after one thirty Mountain Standard Time, October tenth. Marina Crane here. So I'm going to play two videos. One is about maybe three minutes and the other one's almost ten minutes. And I'll break into each one in segments because I I want to it's sort of like a deconstruction of things that have happened to me this past year in terms of narcissistic behavior. and and the we'll say the epiphany or the aha moment of like clarity. Because there are some things like when you hear on my podcast and again, hello to my the people who who have been viewing me and the reality is like a lot of people are more interested in the content of systemic racism in terms of how racism affects my community as well as Just the systemic racism and and how I I deal with it or cope with it or how I see my environment within my First Nations community. Mind you I'm I'm not Inuit or Metis, but I I sort of drift on the side of Metis too because of my Sioux Sioux background, 'cause there are like seven nine Sioux tribes in Canada that weren't even recognized as indigenous until like three years ago. So their status were more like Idneywith Metis and so I I can relate to to that part. But what I what I'm trying to do in this podcast is to describe the r rationale behind why I chose to just put some boundaries down when it comes to women that I've grown up with in my community. Because I think by the time we become seniors, like sixteen over, sixty five and over, seventeen over even even like as far as your fifties, there are a lot of regretful moments that I don't think that you s that older women get. So that's why I focus more on younger people, like teenagers, young adults, women in their thirties, so that I I can get the influence that that it's important to deconstruct or or tr choose to Marina Crane (02:28.678) have self-eliminating, defeating behavior, like to understand yourself. The analogy was like Arnold Schwarzenegger. He grew up his father was a Nazi and he he he describes in his autobiography how he had to really work at dismantling the belief systems of his father that he imprinted on him. And he equated it to like his his physical, like the the how long it took for him to bodybuild. And so that's the the the whole point is you gotta really work at it. And and I find that by the time a person is a senior, you're you're basically battle fatigued, exhausted, and you just like leave it throw it in the wind like a breeze or a shaft in the wind. Maybe that's where the analogy comes from. But part of my podcast is is to focus on my own personal journey so that I'm reflecting to younger people that it is possible and but again to It has to do with respect and self respect I think is really crucial because it's one thing to talk about it, but it's another thing to actually feel it. I think it's like like sex. You really have to work at sex to to really enjoy it. And and it's the same thing with all things. You really have to work at at things that you you want to understand. It's not the brain is a muscle, you have to exercise that. So the first one that I'm going to show or talk about is a young woman who I put on the tape recorder and she's talking about narcissistic behavior. And even though as indigenous women we don't realize it, we we are participating in a narcissistic behavior. So in the past six months, maybe even less too, I've had to put boundaries down and I've even had to stop my contact with certain individuals. And Marina Crane (04:32.205) And it's because of their narcissistic behavior. Because by the time you get to like sixty five and you've worked your entire life, that's a time to relax and enjoy the rest of your life because you're giving it up to the next generation. However, I s truly believe that if you are narcissistic and you're holding on to everything, you can't really enjoy your life. And and you have this codependency with your adult children who are in their forties and you're still paying their bills. Anyway, like look at how much I'm just cringing here. So I'll start it off and I said like I'll I'll put I'll stop and go and stop and go. and this weekend is like a a Thanksgiving weekend in Canada here. So I'm trying to fight off this cold as well. What do you think the most uncom uncomfortable truth about women? So the the lady in question here, She's I thought I thought I had this all set up. I'm sorry for I'm sorry for doing this to you again. But the reality of it is like a lot of times a lot of times I I like I I don't know how to edit my like my audio here. So you you've gotta bear with me. But the fur like I said, the first context is going to be from a lady who who's talking about narcissism. And the next one is gonna a man who's going to deconstruct Trump. Now the reason too is like, okay, yes, he was expected to win the Nobel Peace Prize, but it's the rebuttal, like it's the reality of of just the deconstruction of the psychology of narcissism. And and the fact that there are different different discourses or different segments of narcissism si narcissistic behavior. Again, I'm just grateful that I'm able to find these on social media. Think the most uncom uncomfortable truth about women is that that that you really that it's rarely spoken about. That women are a thousand times more narcissistic than males. I don't think I think the entire human species is a narcissistic species. The whole species is narcissistic. But I believe that the Marina Crane (07:07.714) I'm sorry, it just it seems to pop in and pop out. And like I like if I can even get it to just stay so that you could hear it all, well s well that'll be a success. But but when she says that all human beings are narcissistic, that's why when I focus on healthy human sexuality and I use like it's a seesaw before be between eroti eroti and limerence. So if we're all narcissistic then We're on this balance the seesaw throughout our whole lives. And and so that's why I'm using the analogy because when you it comes to murdered and missing indigenous women, the the the the seesaw or the goes on the extreme on irodomania. And and and that's the that's the critical part where I'm trying to educate people on on the dynamics of how people perceive like a group of people that that like that didn't even know this was happening. We're born into it. Like for like since what the past five hundred years. But I really appreciate all the content from other women of color and just the dynamics of everything that we go through as as women. So we'll go through this again. Yes. that women are a thousand times more narcissistic than males. I don't think I think the entire human species is a narcissistic species. The whole species is narcissistic. But I believe that the most uncomfortable truth for the average person is that women are actually narcissistic, more narcissistic than males. It's not that males are not narcissistic, it's that women are a thousand times more narcissistic. I've never heard a saying that, you just have to love your father no matter what he did because that's your only dad. You only get one. I've never heard that. I always hear it about a woman. No matter what a mother did to her children, no matter what, that's your mama. You still need to love your mom, no matter what she did. I hear women say, Marina Crane (09:26.016) No matter what a woman does, a man should never put his hands on her. Marina Crane (09:33.718) And women believe they can do anything to you and expect that you accept it and still worship the ground they walk on. So if anything is going to improve the truth about the psychology of women has to be revealed. It's a dark place. It's not it's not peaches and cream because women think that they can abuse you, women think that they can talk to you any kind of way. They think they can put their hands on you and then they expect you to still speak of them as angels. That's bad because that behavior trickles down to their children. So they end up ab their children. Women are very to their children and they don't even understand in what ways they're to their children. This is abusive to their children. They can't tell them anything because they do no wrong in their eyes. I try to tell women that even when it comes to their sons, most women set their sons up for failure. And they don't even understand why they set their sons up for failure. And they don't understand this because they don't understand the nature of the male, the physiology, the neurolo the neurology of the male. They don't understand the male's existence. Healthy human sexuality, learn about it. Parents, especially specifically women. Because it it's most most single parents are women. You hear them say something like, I just wanted to give my child the things I never had. Marina Crane (11:16.032) And if it's a woman saying that and she has a son, this is bad because you're not thinking about the development of your child. You're trying to make up for your own childhood through your child. Giving them things that you never had, that you wanted. You're not giving them what they need. You're not tailoring the new environment or your behaviors or your parenting style around what your current child needs. You are thinking about yourself. Well, if you're a woman and you have a son, you are subconsciously thinking of your son as your daughter, yourself. You're treating him like a girl. Because you were a girl and you start to give the children things that they don't need that ends up sabotaging the development of the child. And they are totally unaware of this. So I believe that more information, more knowledge, more education can help With women seeing their own psyche. Relationships should be a mirror to the individual. Every person that you get with is going to reflect back to you who you are. You have to be attuned enough to know that, hmm, this stuff that I'm getting back, it is because I'm projecting something and I'm getting feedback. What is it that I'm doing? What is it about my thought process that's bringing this back to me? What is drawing? Me to the types of relationships, what is it that is showing me? People don't use relationships as feedback as they should, but they give you information that you really need to not only help yourself but to help your offspring. And so for women, I believe, since they are the first teachers of the child, that there needs to be far more education. Marina Crane (13:24.116) in her direction about not only the nature of herself, but the nature of her sons, the male. Women are inadvertently doing things that harms the male's development and then they'll get out and say, That ain't my fault. He needs to man up. We need to stop the conversation about what men need to do. Do men have their faults? Absolutely. I've spoken on these faults. I've called out a lot of male behavior. I mean, I wrote a book called 41 Shades Men to Pursuit to Sedo and Use You. But what's the conversation on women? Because they are the first teachers of the child, you know? so I feel sorry for a lot of the children, especially the involuntary celibates. Because they are they are a danger and women don't understand. These are your signs. These are your sons. Women procreate indiscriminatively. They don't have a they don't have they don't value the things that are valuable. And a lot of times women are unable to recognize threats. So women are attracted to like the worst of the worst. They like criminals. They do like criminals. They like They like psychopaths. They like a lot of things and these traits end up getting passed down to their offspring. So what happens is you choose jacked up genetics and now your son is socially awkward. But he's still a male. And he's still gonna have so desires. And then you you you don't nurture him the correct way and you make him weak. Marina Crane (15:22.59) unable to fight the woes and the challenges in society. And then he gets out here and struggles with the most fundamental human need, especially the male need. You create a violent and a very dangerous person to come out into the world. What do you think the most uncom uncomfortable truth? So the reason I find this article her interesting it she's called the self the soft under bell wipe underbelly. And so the reason I'm struggling with this too is like twenty years ago w we have the group of mothers whose daughters were struggling and they were like fourteen, fifteen, sixteen year old daughters. Now twenty years later I've had to put boundaries down with with quite a few of these women. All because their behavior is still the same. They are still they they can't s they can't set set sense threats. They're attracted to the criminal. They're attracted to the psychopath. And back then they were attracted to Nathan Chasinghorse. So also too, like I've I've met Nathan Chasing Horse's mother. So when I'm talking about like the average woman or when she talks about the average woman, like no matter what she does, she's like Like no matter what she does, she's gotta be perceived as being the good mother. Everything in her her narcissistic behavior is like, I'm doing this because I'm a good mother. I'm putting my my children into these ceremonies and and I'm doing the best thing because I'm with other women who are who are doing the same thing. We are all good mothers. Even when they're giving their daughters to Nathan Chasing Horse, they're they're underage non consensual daughters to him, they still perceive themselves as being good women. They either because they can do anything, because anything that they can do to worship the ground they walk on. So the like what even when I'm warning them that going, no, no, like, yeah, I I understand, I hear you. In the meantime, they're still attending his ceremonies because they they want to look as holy women. See and and that's the whole c deconstruction of it. Marina Crane (17:46.828) Because back then too that that young woman who who initiated her Facebook and one of the victims, her mother when sh her mother was here and the way she talked about her daughter as like a holy child, and the fact is like she has to have been a good mother too, because why else would Nathan Chasing horse be interested in worshiping her and her daughter? So so Nathan Chasinghorse had had been feeding into this narcissistic behavior. because again, the like again, she isn't the only one. Even even in the sentencing, she got up and she said, I I tried to kill myself. Yet it has nothing to do with her. Everything had to do with her daughter. And and that's why I'm saying all these young women who are in their thirties now and and their moms like were instrumental in in like wanting to have them attend ceremony with Nathan Chasing Horse. Yet he knew how to how to engage with them and build them up as if they were like so so such dynamic women that he would worship them. And at the same time he's doing that, he they're giving him their daughters because a good mother would do that. So anyway, so A lot of the talk that I the lot of the things that I do in my podcast in terms of self-reflection, eliminating self-defeating behavior, narcissism, erotia, limerence, all these words are psychological words and and what even when I say it's important to be a collective holistic community, a lot of this times too is that these group of women, even though they're all joining together like a support group. It's it's the inability to to actually work at it. Because it's a lot easier to just sit and gossip than to actually use your brain and look at your own self and wonder why the hell did I give my daughter up to Nathan Chasing Horse? Or why did I keep on persisting when I knew he was dangerous and yet my daughter was so in love and infatuated with him that I wanted her to continue going to his his ceremonies. Like it like the struggle Marina Crane (20:08.33) in in a woman the narcissistic behavior to make it look like everything is okay and she's the best mother that she can do because she's not i looking at herself. And and and the thing is like I I like the point where the lady is talking about her the when you look at it in terms of men, the sons of these women. And like I said, I I've had to put boundaries down with childhood friends, with relations Who have the same dynamics of how they treated their sons. And believe me, it's it's heartbreaking. Because I've I made like I knew them when I was a teenager, when I was a child, and and then I reacquainted myself with them. And then to know how they they still enable their sons. I mean, they they pay for their bills. And her son lives there. And he he He drinks so much he goes he on the weekends he can go on the top of the roof and terrorize the entire community. Like like I like I I I kid you not. I mean I think the most uncomforta even even the point of like one of my relatives, her s her two sons are in their forties and and like they're living with her the one's living with her in the after he got out of jail. Now the other son is in jail. And I have another friend who's like I think she had one son and she's like 77 and she's still working. All these women I'm talking about are still working when they should be retired. They're like like battle fatigue. But it has to do with their the the the narcissism within themselves. That like the the reality is like they're making these their sons isolated. I I see it within my own family. Like the men isolate themselves and they just stay home. and and don't socialize. They don't go out there and actually, you know, enjoy the company of other people, like human sexuality. The basic basic concepts of what it is to be a healthy male. Like as as narcissistic women like to do that. But yet at the same time I want I also want you to I also want you to understand too like like I said there's there's even the whole nature of narcissism. Marina Crane (22:31.946) Even even when you're open and rich like Trump, there's this whole okay, I'm going to play the one on Trump, but I want you to imagine that Trump is not a male. I want you to look at him as being a female, because I'm still harping on women. Because it's crucial because when women are doing this and and look at how the outcome of their sons violent. Violent. Like like the outcome of Nathan chasing horse's mother. Or the outcome of so and so, like or men who go to prison, like even my own mother with my brother who who served four years in in prison. All these things, like I I took care of my mother for over ten years. And and basically I put boundaries down so my own brothers wouldn't abuse our mother verbally, emotionally. So I'm I'm talking from like hardcore here, because even when I'm making the alert of what's happening or what was happening with my niece. in terms of being trafficked, and then trying to put trying to have understanding and support when nobody was listening. It isn't a r I I'm deconstructing everything because at the sentencing of Nathan Chasinghorse this year, the things that I had to have closure on, and this podcast is part of that. So again, I'm gonna play this, but I want you to really work at thinking, instead of this man being Trump, think of Trump as being a woman, a mother of sons and daughters. And I know he's got his own children, but I want you to think of it in terms of your own relationships with other women and and your own relationships too with your sons and daughters, okay? And I'm gonna try and make it so that you understand for each of these diagnoses of narcissism, I've had to put boundaries down, like I said, throughout this year, with with with people with people I've reacquainted with or or just people who I've basically put myself out there to help them. But but the reality of it is they should have done this when when they were in their thirties, when their children were just babies. It it's it's a really difficult thing to to try and have or teach somebody what self reflection is. I I know. That's why I have such a hard struggle with older women, w whatever race they come from, wanting to go into the mental health field because Marina Crane (25:02.048) It it's something that has to start at when the when the your mind is malleable, more malleable than it before, especially when it comes to making sure you're not harming another human being. Okay, so this this is DH four seven nine dot seven one on TikTok. And it's gonna be ten minutes, so that'll take up most of my podcasts. So have some patience please and Understand this, like I'm it's a revelation to me, but at the same time I want people to understand 'cause people have come to me and say, Well, why aren't you talking to this woman anymore? Or why aren't you friends with this person? And the these are the reasons here. Wondering for years why Trump is obsessed with Barack Obama. So he decided to do some research on narcissistic obsession to understand what's actually going on here. Trump has tried to reverse every Obama policy he could find, even when those policies were working. He spent years claiming Obama was not born in America with zero evidence. He tried to erase Obama's name from government websites and official records. And every time Trump speaks, he brings up Barack Obama. He literally can't keep Now the reason I'm using this is because for me, Marina Crane, living in my community, when I talk about intergenerational trauma or when I talk about lateral violence, I'm I'm using this as an example as if I'm Barack Obama because no matter what I say or do, there is always someone who is trying to destroy my reputation, trying to discredit me, trying to show me disrespect. So This obsession isn't new, but I truly believe it's based on a narcissistic foundation. And and so understand this. Some of my podcasts, when I do talk about these things in terms of intergenerational trauma and lateral violence, it's it stems from a lot of the things that happen to indigenous women. And and it's not it and it's imposed because of erotic, the Marina Crane (27:15.438) You know, murdered and missing indigenous women, it's it's it's systemic racism based even before we were born. That's just my opinion. Why is Trump so obsessed with Barack Obama? I had to find out. Here are the five psychological reasons. Trump is absolutely obsessed with Barack Obama. One, the mirror. Trump cannot stop comparing himself to Obama at rallies, in interviews, on social media. Trump brings up Obama's name in every press conference. Even when Obama has nothing to do with that press conference, he can't help himself. He is absolutely obsessed with Obama. Heinz Cahut at the University of Chicago spent his career studying what happens when a person's sense of self is confronted with someone who has everything they believe they deserve but cannot attain themselves. He found that for people who built their identity around a false sense of superiority, while in Marina Crane (28:15.032) This is a specific and devastating kind of pain. Psychologists call this narcissistic injury. Narcissistic injury is a specific psychological wound a person experiences when confronted with someone who has the qualities, achievements, and admiration they believe they should have. Obama is self made. Trump inherited everything from his father. Obama is respected across party lines. Trump is defended only by people who need him. Obama speaks in full sentences. About complex ideas. Trump clearly cannot speak in full sentences, and he has no idea about complex ideas. Obama is calm, contained, and at peace with himself in a way that no amount of money or power can manufacture. Every time Trump sees Obama, he sees the proof of everything he is not. He doesn't hate Obama. Trump experiences the most painful thing a narcissist can experience: a mirror that shows him the truth, that they are weak. And the person they envy is strong too. So that's why I'm saying my efforts to get an education, my efforts in terms of being single and having no partner has has made people look at me and I've had people say, Well, I understand, Marina, why you chose to be single. Yes, because of violence, not because of religion, because of how violent men I saw men treat women. At the same time too Even today, like when I get up and I'm and asked to talk and and like like again, even in my podcast I've had people from various parts of the United States contact me and wanting to inter it it wanting me to be on their podcast or or have them on my podcast, whatever it is. And I've said this before I had a a friend or acquaintance for thirty years, a forensic psychologist, who was always whining and dining me, like, let's do a book together. I had a therapist and you know, one all all of a sudden when I was going to get on national T V sh there she was. Let's set up an appointment, let's do this, let's do that. And I'm going, all of a sudden you're so interested in me. That's why I caution people about mental health workers too, because it's one thing to be indigenous, it's another thing to to look at me and and and say, like something that I have, even though they're basically they're they've been there Marina Crane (30:40.224) as my support, but yet they weren't, how would I put it? I had to come to this myself. Because even in therapy when I'm talking to people about people who look at me and wonder like how like why did I choose to not have a family or in a relationship? Now part of this post that I'm going to put on my blog, I'm going to post a picture of myself. AI generated when I was 23. and what what I would have looked like, what my child would have looked like if if I had had children. And and the thing about it is like, that's like I said a lot of pe a lot of women who chose to have children who who you know l like they they they they want something from me and the thing is like even when I was in even when I was going to university and I had indig a young indigenous men being limerence with me, mind you, like understand this. There was no I had didn't have sex with them, nothing. It was just the fact that they knew I was going to university. So a lot of things and a lot of people too just assume that I have a lot of money or anyway I've gone through so much of this so much of of of this the way people look at me. And and but again too, it's a reflection on the accomplishments I had, but it's another thing to actually own it, like to to recognize my worth. Even though I like for years I I I had friends say, Maureen, you gotta finish this. And it didn't occur to me the strength of finishing something. So so no matter how how much it might seem as as just a inquisitive something small, minute, it it is important to finish something that you started. Because it has it resonates something that other people can't even have. And my one friend who passed away Marina Crane (32:48.538) she counseled quite a few gifted people and then she counseled other people who she says, Marina, the your ability, your gift for for the fine arts, you can see it. She says some a lot of my clients can't see it. And see that's the pivotal thing is like even though I accomplished things, I couldn't see why people would would would want something that I have that I have. But yet again because I obtained it. I obtained a degree. I things that I accomplished, like the competition for it with indigenous women my like sixty five, sixty years and older, even in their fifties, I still have people after I talk come up and and want to befriend me. And so I'm very cautious of making sure I put my boundaries down. Now the second like he's talking about deconstruction of of Trump and again think of Trump as being a woman In my community, an indigenous woman, and think of Barack Obama as being me. Okay? So like I said, you gotta really work hard at it. Envy. Trump does not just want to beat Obama. He wants to be Obama. Roy Baumeister at Florida State University spent decades studying what happens when people with inflated fragile self esteem encounter someone who possesses what they believe they deserve. He found that the response was not admiration and it was not motivation to improve. It was rage. Baumeister called this threatened egotism. Threatened egotism is when a person's fragile self image is destabilized. By someone who possesses what they believe should be theirs. And their brain responds with hostility and aggression rather than self-reflection. Trump wanted the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize. Trump wanted to be considered intelligent. Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago. Trump wanted genuine public love. Obama is loved and respected the world over without even trying. Trump has spent his entire life. Marina Crane (34:55.49) Chasing a version of respect that Obama carries effortlessly, and the chasing makes it worse. Because you cannot chase your way into being someone you're not. And somewhere underneath all that noise, Trump knows that. Three, the cowards move. When a narcissist cannot become the pr Okay, so envy. Okay, so like I said, it it's it's like I'll go back to Nathan Chasing Horse and just the the whole envy part of his narcissistic behavior towards me. Like the the intelligence, the the like wanting the public to love him, chasing chasing after respect. So even within my community, he knew I had a degree, he knew I could articulate. This was like I like I'd already had experience with limerence, with working with high risk suicide teenagers. The reality though is I didn't have the support, I wasn't employed in my community. This was all voluntary on my part. But you also have to understand too that the women of the children the teenagers who were struggling with their children also were sh like like the intelligence, they n none of them had gone to university. they they they wanted to seek they wanted people to look at them like the public in the community look at them as if the their children love them and and they're chasing after the respect of their they want their children to sh show them respect, as well as other women. So again, this whole narcissistic part of it. Now narcissism can become a person they envy. Hold on. Person they envy. There's only one thing left. They try to destroy what they can't have. Not because destroying gives them what they want. But because they cannot stand that it exists out of their control. In 2013, psychologist Mietje Bach at the University of Munster published research on how grandiose narcissists respond when admiration seeking fails. He found that when a narcissist cannot win the admiration they believe they deserve, they shift into a second strategy. Bach called this narcissistic rivalry. Narcissistic rivalry is when a narcissist responds to any perceived status threat. Marina Crane (37:13.602) By devaluing, attacking, and attempting to destroy the source of the threat rather than compete with it on merit. This is the Berther conspiracy. Trump spent years telling the world that Obama was not born in America. Not because he believed it, because he needed Obama to be illegitimate. Because if Obama was illegitimate, then everything Obama achieved was fraudulent. And if everything Obama achieved was fraudulent, then Trump did not have to argue with the fact that Obama achieved greatness and Trump did not. When that failed and Obama became loved throughout the world, Trump went after Michelle Obama. He allowed his supporters to mock her appearance and mock her humanity on national television because hurting the people Obama loves is the only move left when you cannot hurt Obama himself. And through all of that, Obama never flinched. Not once. Because a bully needs a reaction. The reaction is proof that the bully has power. When the target does not react, the bully has nothing. Marina Crane (38:16.646) And has failed at it. Obama has never once given him the time of day that is an immature grammar school bully who can't make the other kid cry and can't figure out why for the trap. Every attempt. So again, I want to go back to the the part of what he what he was talking about. He cannot cannot stand what they cannot control. And so like Nathan Chasing horse could not stand me because he couldn't control me. But at the same time too, understand, twenty years ago these women couldn't control me either. I mean I I did everything to fundraise having taco sell sales, trying to help earn money for them to try and get their children to go to to to Nathan Chasing Horses Sundance so that they could be mother and daughter participating in a very grueling ceremony and ritual. But that never came to fruition at all. So again The whole thing is if you cannot control somebody, then like I said, I I in my podcast last month I had to stop and just cut off all connections with a relative. Like I said, these senior women like sixty five and older that are indigenous, the things that they've done to enable their sons or their adult children and when they don't see they when they can control me. Like the the one lady was coaching me on how to kill myself because because she you know, she couldn't she couldn't make the shift, like she's shifting because she couldn't control me. So at the same time too, like even even the the merit of what I've accomplished in terms of being single, the whole notion that Nathan Chasing horse created a narrative that I was chasing him. And the fact that these women who I basically was there supporting and volunteering to help them. We're we're we're riding on that merit that that that I was chasing Nathan Chasing Horse. Now what would have happened if I actually tried to chase him, tried to seduce him, tried to like make a fool of myself in public. see, 'cause if they couldn't do that. They couldn't do that. So what did they do? See, understand this. When my brother was actively Marina Crane (40:39.72) supporting Nathan Chasing Wars and actively abusing my niece, both men. When when they had no control over me and the community they shifted. They shifted and they went after my family. They went after my brother's children. They went after my niece. Like they went after my nieces and nephews. And and so that's why when I when I talk about sovereignty over our ch children. I I'm c talking from experience. When when a child ha gets to a point that they become a danger to themselves and others, who who is there g that's going to champion them? And and the thing is like when when a child turns against you and and and whatever they do to discredit you and people believe them, you have to stand strong and say, no I'm doing this. I had to get a restraining order against my niece. Now that's why I'm I'm I struggle when it comes to these women twenty years ago. The they they couldn't do it. They they couldn't they couldn't face their daughters their daughters, whatever slander they were gonna throw at their mothers, the women could not do this. And and the thing is like if we had some mental health workers and support in in youth development, if we had sovereignty over that. That's why I struggle when people say, I'm sovereign this and I'm sovereign that. I'm going, No, you're not. You don't understand the concept of it. It's one thing to have treaty rights. It's understand it's another thing to understand how that law is implemented at the federal and provincial level because we're the fourth world. We're the fourth it's the fourth world we're living in. And it's a very hard concept for people in federal or provincial ways of thinking to even comprehend. And that's why it's such a difficult task. when I talk about erotic and murdered and missing indigenous women and tr and y also like the whole notion of of deconstructing limerence so that something normal is is perceived as being abnormal so that they can take control over that individual who is in limerence. Like turning it into something like a lateral violent scheme of things. And and that's why like when I try to struggle with healthy human sexuality and the Marina Crane (43:05.292) the definition of it. It's important that people understand and if but if you're a woman with narcissistic behavior and and you're unable to self-reflect, then at what point are you actually making that effort? Because it's not easy. It's not easy to to protect the people that you really care about. And it's not in terms of reputation. It's just in terms of values and beliefs because if you know the basic fundamentals and that's why I say basic psychology one one when an adult thinks of having sex with a child that's a thought it's not an action but once he once he or she Marina Crane (43:56.152) gets that thought into motion and becomes an action, then it becomes then it becomes something that's unforgivable. So that's why I'm saying when women gave up their children to Nathan Chasing Horse and they knew what he was doing, that is unforgivable. That is unforgivable. And yet here here when twenty like here now and this twenty years later when I'm Some of these women have passed away, some are still here. And and the fact that they're they're really curious about me and I'm going, No, I've had it. I'm putting boundaries down. I don't need to participate in any kind of sl like like I'm not I'm not naive enough to know that they're slandering me. But you know, like that that's the reality of it is that they're they're narc when they're when it's slanderous it's become narcissistic Machiavellian. And so that's why I I try to distinguish that that it's important that women when you're younger, like in your in your thirties and your babies are just like five years, like in they're just children. Get mental health, get you know, deconstruct, understand your limerence and erotomania, understand your your self-defeating thinking, how to deconstruct it, how to trust people, how to respect understand what respect feels like. I'm seventy-four. It's this isn't easy. Okay? It isn't easy. And every day when I think and I get up and I'm grateful for another day, if I can do something to to even just release things that that are so vital to me to share. And 'cause a lot of things that we talk about and hear about and ev especially people who ha are so tired of t of Donald Trump and how he just envies people who win a Nobel Peace Prize, especially a woman. It it i and you think, no, that's him. No, th it's everywhere. You d it's pervasive. But you have to step back and take a look at at you have to look like y self reflection is so important. Now, here's here's another Marina Crane (46:14.464) It goes on this guy I again I said his his TikTok is TH four seven nine dot seven one Trump makes to erase Obama makes the narcissistic wound worse for Trump. Dan Cahana at Yale University published research on what happens when a person's core identity is threatened by something they cannot neutralize through normal means. He found that the brain does not accept defeat. It escalates it. Cahan called this identity protective cognition. It's when a threat to a person's core identity cannot be eliminated through rational means, so the brain constructs increasingly extreme responses in an attempt to destroy the threat. Obama's certificate of birth was released. Trump kept talking about it for years anyway. Trump reversed many of Obama's policies. Yet Obama's approval rating stayed higher than Trump's. Obama's name was removed from websites. Obama published a memoir that sold millions of copies and won awards, and when Obama gave a speech, the entire world paid attention. Every erasure attempt failed, because the thing Trump is trying to erase is not policy or a record or a name on a website. Trump is trying to erase the living proof that genuine dignity, genuine intelligence, and genuine respect cannot be faked, bought, or taken by executive order. Obama exists. He will always exist in our history. Trump cannot escape what Obama's existence proves about himself. That he will never be the man Obama is. That is why Trump can never stop. That is why he will never stop. Five. The scapegoat. Trump has been blaming Ob So again, like like I like for this the escalating of one's core identity, the extreme responses. So even when it came to Nathan Chasing horse. for dec like for decades it was like I have emails from Marina Crane saying that she is in love with me. Like like attacking me over and over again. And the fact is the women from my community believed him. Even though they're talking to me and I'm still struggling and saying, No, this is what he's done, this is the emails I've received, this is what I'm hearing. Nothing, nothing could convince them. He Marina Crane (48:38.058) even when he was arrested they were still there. Like I use the analogy of my niece. I I I approached Michelle and I said, I'd like to be on your your podcast. And and the first time I was on my podcast, bang, I got you know, I got messages from CBC and and the thing is like even two months later I asked for another interview with Michelle Each time my niece had confronted Michelle and Michelle told me, she says, Marina, I've been receiving text emails from your your your niece saying not to believe you because again, this whole core identity of Nathan Chasinghorse, he coercive control over my niece. That my niece spread this thr this like d denialism that I you know, like for me. I did not send emails. No matter what I said or did, she ev my niece even hired a lawyer to sue me for defamation of character and slander. Like r like I said, the core identity of Nathan Chasing Horse, right until the bitter in even when he was arrested, that that I had to get text that the lady who did the the podcast had the text so I could send it to our our local police, our tribal police, so I could say, Look, my niece is still threatening me because if it became dangerous and she came to my house, they'd be there to s to to protect me. So like it it it isn't it isn't something like a fallacy. Nathan Chasinghorse tr trained his followers like to commit suicide if he ever was caught, he trained them how to to like he he told them what to take I'm I mean like he tried to He said to them like to commit suicide. Just like I said that it seems preposterous that's that I I have a a a f a child like a friend trying to coach me how to kill myself. But these things seem outrageous, but the reality of it is like there are people out there. So anyway, going back to the podcast and and the fact that that, you know, the police had validation and the whole whole core core of of this Marina Crane (51:01.006) but ice like escalating his core identity and for the fact too is that when I went down to Las Vegas and the late the people there from California and Nevada when they came up to me 'cause everybody went into the courtroom, all the reporters and everybody were in the courtroom and these other people who had been belonged to Nathan's cult came to me and and and they they thanked me because because they they they they were participated in this escalation i in in what he thought I was like how he attacked my core how how would I say the core identity of of of him like the extreme response they they participated in this and they thanked me for the blog I had. And see the reality of it is this is the the response, this is the the the turning point. when when my blog got recognized and and everybody was paying me attention. So when he talks about Barack Obama and all the things that he's accomplished and how people pay him attention and and like it even even like like Trump trying to the fact that he was you know, using his passport, his identity, like all these things this narcissistic behavior contributes. That's why I put the first video on about the narcissistic in terms of women. So anyway, the whole point is I exist. I exist. I I know my worth. I know I'm respected. And the thing is women still will still bl the like they still want to to be me. Some women still want to be me. Like the lady who who coached me to kill myself. When we I was friends with her mother before and when we first started getting to know each other, she says, Marina, I I I wish I was you. Now to the whole point is like like that's why I say it's really critical for for women to to really do some self-reflective, have some self-reflective skills. It's one thing to say you've got a degree, but what is the worth of your degree? Marina Crane (53:24.342) if your mental health and your own identity does like if it just doesn't fit, it just like it's it's it's like on that seesaw, one side is tipped, either erodomania or limerence. Like see and that's the whole core of systemic racism and and the reality of like what is it what is it that that you're holding on to in in terms of trying to like understand what is it that you you can't find peace. Like I I'm I like I said, I I had to I had to let people know or not know when I went to Las Vegas, I didn't let people know I was going. I d I didn't understand the social structure of why and the protection I was doing that for. But but it played a big part in in who after when I came back from the sentencing, who I was still letting within my own personal circle. Who is it that I would trust and who is it that that I would disclose certain things about my life? And again to I truly, truly believe creator of the grandfathers and grandmothers, everything is guided. So so if you've been and if you're part of my podcast and you've listened and and you've been acquainted with me and we're no longer acquainted That's because it was guided. So even if you've emailed me and wanted me to be on your podcast, I don't take money. Like I said, I had an acquaintance for over thirty years who wanted to write a book with me. I I don't I don't I don't do this for anything, but just to make sure that indigenous people know there are so many people out there pretending to be your ally when they're not. And so even though the struggle is real and even though I say like yes, I gr grew up and I still know these women from twenty years ago, I still see you know, I th I still am living in my community. Nothing has changed. The only thing that has changed is that I I I'm no longer talking to them. And and that's the reality of it. It's just that simple. Marina Crane (55:47.39) For twenty years, not just politically, but personally and obsessively. The economy is struggling, Obama's fault. Crime is up, Obama's fault. Foreign policy is a disaster. Obama's fault. Things that have happened over a decade after Obama left office. Things that Obama had nothing to do with. Problems Trump himself caused in 195. See, understand this too, even when it comes to Mormonism and people in my community, it's Marina's fault. It's Marina's fault this, it's Marina's fault that within my own family. But but the ripple effect then it goes into my community and it's Marina's fault. Under understand this too, like like like I said, I started a daycare the budgets for daycare and detox treatment center under when I was like t built before I was even twenty five, just so that I the renovations I c I could be the janitor, have place of my own. And the fact is that the leadership had to create a policy that says they weren't going to give housing or place for single women with no children to live until they were fifty five years and older. And I don't I I don't know, maybe in the past ten years they've taken that policy off of housing. But I tell you, my my sister who is sixty and my other sister who is seventy three have been paying mortgage their whole lives off off reserve. And and you know, applying for housing. Anyway, like I said, narcissistic behavior and how other women will will use excuses for other women not to have things. So it's it's a struggle. People blame people, we know that, it exists. But but even then too, like I said, and I think like what Arnold Schwarzenegger said too, you've got to really work hard. So So even no matter how well what do you call intergenerational trauma, no matter how hard our parents were or grandparents, our ancestors, like like like I said, even if even like with Schwarz Schwarzneger, his father was a Nazi. Eva like in for all these white supremacists out there, no matter how hard it is, you have to know that that the struggle is worth it if you just do some self reflection. Marina Crane (58:14.656) some some eliminating some self defeating behavior. It's it's as it's as it's as pivotal as as biking or exercising. Y it's it's something that that you have to work at because because it's it's blood, sweat and tears. Everything that I've done, like even taking care of my late mother, that really slowed me down. It really slowed me down. And and but the things that I've learned about myself and my family is priceless. And especially my community. Because I also had to protect my mother from my community. When all this was happening to her son, and and because again Nathan Chasing Horse was Sioux, and my mother is a Dakota Sioux woman, and my grandmother too, who married into Sioux Tina was also Sioux. And the same with my dad's aunties, they were Sioux. So the whole identity of my core identity had a foundation, but when Nathan Chasing Thorst came in as a Lakota Sioux and and felt that I was threatening him, to the point where he even had s explained to one of his followers that I thought I was more powerful than him. The discredit of this man, even during the sentencing, the fellow who came with me took a picture of me with a teardrop. I was so involved in everything. Just being there silently listening to the sentencing. I just didn't want anybody to look at me. Marina Crane (59:57.922) The whole matter is that I w witnessed I had warned him, go to the police. Go to the police. Tell your story. See, I knew that if he went to the police, the police would have called my niece. And he knew that too. He damn well knew it. But he knew that even if he turned himself in and it was true, even if he was arrested and and charged, it would have been the beginning of his healing journey. It would have been the beginning of his healing journey twenty years ago. But he chose not to. He chose not to to do that. He chose to hide. He chose his narcissistic behavior because because it was so entrenched in our communities, with within our own indigenous women, because of intergenerational trauma. And that and that if if you haven't worked at it He haven't really worked at deconstructing and and and eliminating a self defeating behavior that that he could take advantage, you become vulnerable. And he was vulnerable. He knew he knew that that that 'cause he'd already like I said, he he had already been so entrenched in what he was doing and his his propensity for children, not just teenagers, children, twenty years ago. That's my opinion. I truly believe that from everything that I heard at at the sentencing. D four psychologist Gordon Alport at Harvard University published The Nature of Prejudice. In it he documented what happens when a person cannot tolerate their own failures and inadequacies. He found that the brain looks for a target outside of itself. Someone they can project all of their failures onto. Someone who absorbs all of the blame so that the person doing the blaming never has to face themselves. Elport called this scapegoating. Scapegoating is when a person displaces all of their own failures, inadequacies, and frustrations onto a target who becomes the symbolic cause of everything wrong, protecting the person from having to confront their own responsibility. Trump didn't choose Obama as a scapegoat randomly. He chose the person whose existence already wounds him the most. Because blaming Obama does two things. Marina Crane (01:02:20.814) Things simultaneously. It protects Trump from having to admit his own failures, and it diminishes the man Trump can never be. One move, two psychological needs met. Obama is not just a rival to Trump. Obama is Trump's explanation for everything Trump cannot fix, achieve, or become himself. Trump cannot keep Obama's name out of his mouth. Trump does not hate Barack Obama. He wants to be Barack Obama. He wants the natural dignity, the earned respect, the genuine love of people who do not need anything from him, the calm authority of a man who is completely at peace with who he is. And Trump knows he will never have it. Not with all the money, not with all the power, not with the presidency. Because those things cannot be bought, faked, or stolen. And the man who spent his entire life buying, faking, and stealing. Marina Crane (01:03:16.472) For Trump supporters who wonder why he keeps bringing Knows that better than anyone else. For Trump supporters who wonder why he keeps bringing up Obama's name at rallies that have nothing to do with him, this is not a strategy. This is a man who cannot escape the shadow of someone who is everything he pretends to be. For the rest of us, the obsession explains everything. Every irrational reversal, every unprovoked attack, every rally where a name comes up that has no reason to be there. This is one fragile man watching someone else be everything he will never be and he is completely powerless to stop it. That's DH479.710 on TikTok. So that's why like even scapegoating and the whole thing about like buying and stealing like I I had the the the former chief Like you know, just buying his votes and stealing and scapegoating, never like l targeting me as a female, like I am Sioux. I know my identity. I've I grew up as a child hearing all the multi languages within my community. Dakota, Sioux, Stony, Cree, Blackfoot, Sutina, English. And yet here's our leader, our chief, who only understands English. Again, scapegoating and and into like being targeted. Everything any crisis that came up, I had people say, Marina, you wrote a letter to the chief. No, I didn't. yes you did. I'm going, no, I d like trying to anything and everything targeting me to discredit me throughout my life. Marina Crane (01:05:02.968) Finally, like even like I said, him enabling Nathan Chasinghorse to be here and for this forensic psychologist to come in here and you know talk to the tribal police and the one tribal police isn't here anymore. And and for this psychologist to say that our chief had a propensity for boys and even knowing like I said, Nathan Chasing Horse twenty years ago, his propensity for children was already established. Like it's preposterous and yet diabolical and yet true. Cause he you know, he the forensic psychologist explained to the tribal police like that he'd been his this our leader's therapist and that he he had said to me, he said that this chief had enabled Nathan Chasing Horse to thrive so much longer in our community because the targeted person was me. Even even in the chief's politics. And even if I'm not even doing anything, it was just automatic. Automatic. That's why when it comes to religiosity, I'm thinking no, don't even go there because you know that's what people are doing. They want to look like they're they're good people. They're really good people. Anything like to slander me and like you know, I for whatever reasoning and purpose for my podcast and even to just say like I do this so I could have peace. I do this so that you know you get you get a gist of of the realities of of what it's like to to live as an indigenous woman. And and so like I said it's it's the reality of of just how narcissistic as human beings we are. And to to deconstruct it and to understand. So a lot of when I came home from the sentencing and I started letting people know that I did go down to sentencing and and just the the realities of the lateral violence that I experienced and I thought, no I can't do this. I can't do this. I spent decades defending myself and I'm not gonna do it no more. I'm not gonna do it no more because I have respect for myself. Marina Crane (01:07:29.2) And if I hadn't if I hadn't allowed myself to to trust to trust CBC, the fifth estate, if I hadn't allowed that, then then people wouldn't have like I I'm a public figure now. I mean you might not know me because like the majority of the world is white and black. And and and on the other side of the world there's like the what I'm trying my my poor ego. What I'm saying is like within my indigenous community when I'm going places, out of unexpected people just come up to me. And so I'm grateful for for for the publicity and to be to be seen, to be seen because I was heard. I'm grateful, but at the same time too very humble in the sense that I've had to put boundaries down. I've had to learn to protect myself. against women who are living day to day struggling to to pay their bills, to to keep still keep that same behavior with their adult children, their adult sons. And the thing is like, why is there so many indigenous men in prisons? You know, when I look at when I look at just what like the like that lady, I'll play her her ta like I I don't want to play it again, but the reality of it is like she she is it is true. You know, th the outcome is violence. The outcome is violence and and we have to we have to look at it that way, that when we when we don't allow our our boys, our sons, our nephews to To be healthy human beings. I'm just grateful for Wachashta Washte for for the stictuativeness for him championing this cause of Nathan Chasing horse at a national level. That even it went into the United States as well. I'm just so grateful because as indigenous women we have to voice our opinions. We have to let the public know. Marina Crane (01:09:44.994) that this is intergenerational trauma. This is what this is what systemic racism has created. And if we cannot interpret it and say it in the most basic simple terms, then how are we how are we going to address the issues that are facing us today? I I'm just grateful again for the the peop the these abilities the abilities of of of Marina Crane (01:10:22.338) I don't know if I'm even able to do some of these things that I'm supposed to do, but let's try the I'm not too sure. Romanic love is one of the most addictive substances on earth. I and my colleagues, Art Aaron and Lucy Brown and others, have put thirty-seven people who are madly in love into a functional MRI brain scanner. seventeen who are happily in love, fifteen who had just been dumped. And we're just starting our third experiment studying people who report that they're still in love after 10 to 25 years of marriage. So this is the short story of that research. Our first study of people who are happily loved found activity in a tiny little factory near the base of the brain called the ventral tegmetal area. We found activity in some cells called the A10 cells, cells that actually make dopamine a natural stimulant and spray it to many brain regions. Indeed, this part, the VTA, is part of the brain's reward system. It's way below your cognitive thinking process. It's below your emotions. It's part of what we call the reptilian core of the brain, associated with wanting, with motivation, with focus and with craving. In fact, the same brain region where we found activity becomes active also when you feel the rush of cocaine. But romantic love is much more than a cocaine high. At least you come down from cocaine. romantic love is an obsession. It possesses you. You lose your sense of self. You can't stop thinking about another human being. Somebody is camping in your head. And the obsession can get worse when you've been rejected. Looking at the data of the people who we put into the machine after they had just been dumped. We found activity in exactly the same brain region associated with intense romantic love. That brain system, the reward system. For wanting, for motivation, for craving, for focus becomes more active when you can't get what you want. In this case, life's greatest prize, an appropriate mating partner. We found activity in other brain regions also, in a brain region associated with calculating gains and losses. You're calculating, you know, what went wrong. How how what you know what have I lost? And indeed, it's this brain. Marina Crane (01:12:37.954) Part of the brain, the core of the nucleus of cumbersactory that's becoming active as you're measuring your gains and losses. So, what have I learned from this experiment that I would like to tell the world? Foremost, I have come to think that romantic love is a drive, a basic mating drive. Not the sex drive. The sex drive gets you out the loop for a whole range of partners. Romantic love enables you to focus your mating energy on just one at a time, conserve your mating energy, and start. the mating process with a single individual. I've also come to believe that romantic love is an addiction, a perfectly wonderful addiction when it Marina Crane (01:13:20.206) And a perfectly horrible addiction when it's going poorly. And indeed, it has all of the characteristics of addiction. You focus on the person, you obsessively think about them, you crave them, you distort reality. And it's got the three main characteristics of addiction: tolerance, you need to see more and more and more, withdrawals, and last but not relapse. So one thing I would like the medical and the medical community and the legal community and even the college community. to see if they can understand that indeed romantic love is one of the most addictive substances on earth. So my final statement is Love is in us. It's deeply embedded in the brain. Our challenge is to understand each other. And that's from her name is the most addictive her name is Helen Helen Fisher. It she says if you ever felt obsessed with someone you love, you're not alone. Your brain is hardwired that way. Here's an anthropological and her name is Helen Fisher says makes romantic love so addicting and that's can be found at T dot Ted dot com forward slash C L F U L eight three. That's why when I talk about limerenance and erotomania, the that's the the like that is the the seesaw of life. But how we interpret it when when like when we're extremely burnt out, like in like I said, erotomania, or even in terms of limerence, because limerence can last quite a long time, sometimes even years, sometimes just two weeks. But but it's the nature of how we deconstruct it to to go like we go through relapse and recovery through this addictive behavior. And and so like I said, I truly believe like love isn't eternal. It's not forever. We if we go into erotic and we go into traumatic bonds, then then it becomes very self destructive behavior because we're we're we're not looking at ourselves in terms of limerence and Marina Crane (01:15:38.264) limerence eventually leading to like love, like it's not sex, like there's a difference between sex and love. So when you go to the point of being in a bonding just for the one person, that that is the nature of life. But to to deconstruct it and to to pervert it and to to have it and manipulate it to your core fundal your core fundamental identity, then then you're It like again, those things are unforgivable. So if if that makes any sense in terms of how how I see things and how may maybe okay, so here here is a thing that that people don't understand and i i i in all things in all things. So let me put it this way. When these core of women all came together to support their daughters Okay, their daughters are thirty now. Understand this, okay, when it comes to addiction. And I and and this is why I wanna make it clear. Collective and holistic approaches are important. It's more important, say, than than people who don't even have that, don't have community, have never been raised with people your whole life. So so what am I getting at? Okay. we'll use the analogy you've got a job and it's on the thirteenth floor. And on the thirteenth floor, everybody in that office, men and women, go out every weekend and get pissed drunk on Friday night and recover recover Saturday and Sunday and come back to work. And and they all smoke and they all drink and they party, do a little coke on the side. And so here you are, you apply for the job on the thirteenth floor, you get it. You yourself have never smoked, drank, take you know, took part in pornography, nothing. You're like you're you're just like, no, I don't participate, my central nervous system is balanced. You get a job, you go into that. Within three years, okay, because you're in that environment, you be you will start smoking, drinking, watching porn. Everything that that thirteenth floor audience has been doing, participating every day, you get absorbed in it. So that's why when I talk about narcissistic behavior Marina Crane (01:18:04.448) and p things that people accomplish. It's important that in this whole sphere of things, like women in support groups, when they're healing and they succeed in something, it's important that it's validated because that means the whole evolution of that group changes as well. So even within my community as elders and how much we developed and progressed in terms of economic development, we've all had a share in that because we've all seen how individuals have ch have changed or have succeeded in certain things. Like I said, we have a young man who's a millionaire. That's just one. We have so many other young people who've accomplished things. And again, understand this, we're all on this healing journey. Just because somebody has accomplished one thing doesn't mean that their journey is over. Everybody, every human being, and that's what's the that's why there's such the beauty of it at all. So, wrapping things up, I just want German philosopher named Heide Guttner Avengers spent decades researching indigenous societies across Asia, Africa, and the Americas. And what she found challenged everything that most of us were taught about how human beings are capable of organizing themselves. She said that matriarchies are not the opposite of patriarchy. They are not women ruling over men, they are mother-centered societies built on caretaking, nurturing, and the protection of everyone in the group. Men included. In these societies, if a man wanted status, if he wanted to be respected and represent his people, he had to be like a good mother. Not dominant, not aggressive, but accountable to the well-being of others. This is a completely different definition of male leadership than anything that I grew up with. But if you look at the current system, what it's actually producing is that men account for over ninety percent of all violent crime. They commit nearly all mass shootings. They are the primary perpetrators of domestic violence and child abuse and sexual assault. And they also die by suicide four times the rate of women. The same structure that makes men dangerous is also the one that makes men desperate, and that's not what I would call like an individual failure, it's what the system has built in dominance and it and it's created over generations. So here's what most people don't know is that indigenous matriarchal leadership models sustained entire nations since time immemorial. Okay, and so it was colonization driven by these systems. Marina Crane (01:20:23.36) of violent gender-based policies that deliberately dismantled them, right? These these true matriarchal systems were rooted in the understanding that women are direct reflections of the land and the waters, the earth. Women were the conduit for healthy and strong communities. So colonization took the land and also to the governance structures that were protecting life amongst indigenous communities. So there is a word for that that we are gonna call back, which is rematriation. So it's linked to land-backed movement and it goes deeper. This is where my mind goes is Who will steward the land and the air and the water, the natural lahu will sing and give the prayers and the ceremonies for the women and the children, right, and the generations that come. Leadership in governance and ceremony, land steward stewardship has to be carried within a truth, which is you cannot restore the land without restoring yourself. You have to r restore systems that protect that. That's why I say leadership that we need cannot come from inside this framework that we've been existing in. It has Good intentions are not enough. Decolonization without re-indigenization isn't complete. Liberation isn't just about dismantling the colonial structure, it's it's about building and embodying the ancestral near the ancestral narratives. So if you see yourself as a selected or advised one necessary, then you will be held accountable by a council. You can't just call in matriarchy, we have to re-indigenize what that means, not of nostalgia by us of in practice, so we have to get back to our language. So I'm here to educate the youth around re-indigenizing and what leadership looks like, so go ahead and check out my links in bio. And he's called the A-L-I-C I A O R R O W. And he's saying I've struggled a lot recently internally with this deep knowing that any resistance to one's craziness of today is still operating inside of a very current broken system. It is self perpetuating system that hurts everyone, even those who resist it. So I again that's why I'm when I talk about it, and this is at Kale.ca L E C A H I for this beautiful examination of the differences between vertically oriented patriarchy and the hor horizontal orientation of matriarchy. So Marina Crane (01:22:47.946) Again, like I said, collective and holistic approaches. It i again like it takes it takes a period of time of evolution, especially when you're a support group, that you ca that you become cohesive i ev like in a span of three years. That that's not that's not a lot to give up when when it when the rewards are so much greater. A problem in society is not Marina Crane (01:23:18.314) Our kids enough science. Because let's say we started that tomorrow. Does that mean everything's okay? If we teach the 13-year-old better STEM education, have a better STEM teacher, am I gonna wait 40 years for that kid to become president and or member of Congress so that we now have a scientifically illiterate country? No, I don't I'm not I'm not that patient. For me, the real challenge, the real problem are scientifically illiterate adults, adults are in charge. There are five times as many adults as there are kids in this country. Adults wield resources, adults vote. Don't tell me, well, let's fix the kids and everything will be fine. Fix the adults, then the kids will be fine. If you feel strongly about your religious philosophies, I will have nothing to say about it. Unless you want to change the curriculum in a science classroom. And I would ask you, I won't fight you, I will ask you. Why? There's no tradition of scientists knocking down the Sunday school door, telling the preacher what to teach. That is never atheists don't even do that. There's no scientists or atheists picketing outside of your church saying or synagogue or or or mosque. That might not necessarily be true. There is no such tradition. So what is the motivation to try to take a religious philosophy And influence what goes on in science. You can get up enough people to influence school boards. Okay. Again, I'm an educator, so I'm here to tell you the consequence of that. If you substitute religious philosophy for science, there'll be a generation of people who will not understand what science is. And they will be intellectually crippled from contributing to what the centuries have demonstrated to be the most efficient engine of economic growth that has ever been devised. And that is innovations in science and technology. The real problem in society is not whether we're teaching our kids enough science. Because let's say we started that s Neil degre degrees Tyson on cre on creationism in America. Marina Crane (01:25:40.046) So that's why I'm saying I don't have patience. I don't have patience anymore. I'm seventy four. A lot of the things that that I talk about in collective and holistic approaches to healing, like that could have been done in the sixties. Like like I said, my people who want to have control over individuals, like control over my parents or my grandparents, already did that. Like poo poo on you. You know, really. I'm just so grateful that there are a lot of indigenous and people minorities who are contributing to the understanding of of what history actual North American history was all about. No. Marina Crane (01:26:27.094) So if you've ever noticed as you've taken this journey, connect with Indigenous heritage, obviously she says white passing, but someone that I've learned about herself is that you can be native presenting depending on how you style your hair, what kind of clothes you wear, the native jewelry. And she like waiting a white passing discovers that representing native is men feel very s especially white men feel very, very comfortable invading her per personal space. And this is something she's expected that women throughout her life, but consistently, that when you it happens and and you're representing native people is disturbing. If you've been if you've wondered why it seems like a lot of native people don't wear like traditional clothes or traditional jewelry or traditional styles and like this is the reasoning of it is the target that not only racial racism but sexualization of violence at the hands of white men is obvious with murdered and missing indigenous people. And it's easy for white person just Book to go about their life thinking. You don't understand. I didn't understand until I started embracing my heritage and presenting in a native way. I get it now. So when indigenous women are telling you this is a genocide, and yes, that is the word that I'm using, they are completely correct. And I am angry. I'm angry that we can't wear our heritage outwardly without it being a liability to us. And I am angry that there are so many women who can't can't just take off the earrings and the braids and feel. Marina Crane (01:28:17.484) Because they are walking around visibly indigenous, regardless. And I am so angry that there are so many men who are comfortable making us as Indigenous women feel uncomfortable. So I have noticed something very disturbing as I've gone this journey to reconnect with my Indigenous heritage. Obviously, I am white passing. But something that I've learned about myself is that I can be native presenting depending on how I style my hair, what kind of clothes I'm wearing, am I wearing native jewelry? And I have discovered that when I am native presenting, men feel very, especially white men, feel very, very comfortable invading my personal space. And this is something I've experienced, you know, as a woman throughout my life, but the consistency with which it happens when I am presenting outwardly as a native person is disturbing. And I've wondered why it seems like a lot of native people don't wear our traditional clothes, our traditional jewelry, our traditional styles. And I'm realizing it makes us a target of not only racism, but sexualized violence at the hands of white men. Which like obviously with the missing and murdered indigenous women, we knew this. It's so easy as a white person to just go about your life and think, yeah, this is a problem, but you don't understand. I didn't understand until I started embracing my heritage and presenting in a native way. I get it now. So when indigenous women are telling you this is a genocide, and yes, that is the word that I'm using, they are completely correct. And I'm angry. I'm angry that we can't wear our heritage outwardly without it being a liability to us. And I am angry that there are so many women who can't just take off the earrings and the braids and feel safe because they are walking around visibly indigenous, regardless. Marina Crane (01:30:26.368) And I am so angry that there are so many men who are comfortable making us as indigenous women feel uncomfortable. So I And her she's O-L-E-A-F-I-A-444. I mean, even when I went to Las Vegas and I come back on the airplane and I'm sitting between two white men, obviously they're uncomfortable. Even my trying to make them comfortable was a failure. like yeah, they just it's just natural to them. No need to even show me any courtesy or respect. Yeah, I wear my skin. Marina Crane (01:31:11.984) So let's see here. Marina Crane (01:31:20.492) Now. let's see man camps. Here we go. Absolutely. The biggest threat to Indigenous women are the man camps that are put in place by the oil industry. There is a pattern where when these man camps pop up, indigenous women start to go missing. Because these men have tons of money. They're seeking out sex workers. They're brutalizing women because they're on drugs. And the RCMB probably doesn't do anything about it because they're being paid off by the oil companies to just look the other way. The brutalization of the land is directly reflected in the brutalization of the indigenous women on that land. They don't call them rig pigs for no reason. Absolutely. So I worked up north when I was thirty. And there were man camps in Fort McMurray, because it's the oil sands. And just recently one of my childhood friends in my community, her grandson has been working up at Fort McMurray for the past three years and she says he has changed. And I said, Well, if he's been there for three years and say he goes in there and he's indigenous and and he's like so naive about like human trafficking, drugs police like how the police look the other way. He'll he's gonna look really really. Now, when I worked in Fort Mackay, Alberta, I worked with a white guy, he had been the principal, and he was also married to the first indigenous female chief in Alberta. And he made a comment, he says, when I f when the Fort Mc Fort McMurray was first started, he says he said there were there was a lot of violence, a lot of violence towards w indigenous women. Marina Crane (01:33:22.022) And he said in a group of indigenous women got so sick and tired of it, they plotted to get the revenge. And so what they did is they set up a white guy, went to the bar went where they were drinking, s lured him to a place to have sex. And and when they got him there, they tied him up and they raped him. They raped him so bad he had to be airlifted to Edmonton. Okay, so like these horrific stories. of violence in these man camps and just what what happens when women go missing and the intolerance like within communities that live there that have been putting up with so much violence with the police looking the other way that this group of women took matters into their own hands. And that was a story that that I was I was told. So and understand this the no matter how moral a structure you think and you feel you are that you you know, you don't have the capacity to to be that vulnerable. Believe me, if you've been in that environment like this young man from my community who has come out very hardened because of what he's experienced, that is the result of it. Even though we you know, we have to work, we have to do things, that that is the reality of the things that happen when people are around people who are are addicted. And again too, when we say like the most addictive thing in life and h and how it's deconstructed and not understood by men. Men who were raised by narcissistic women, so they become so violent. And the victims are indigenous women. Marina Crane (01:35:06.338) If we don't trust the man that we are with, but we are still allowing him to penetrate us, that is a form of self-harm. And we need to really take that in instead of taking him in. We need to be present. with the knowing that many, many times our body just knows this is not someone that I should be with. And for whatever reason you're not enforcing that boundary or you're lonely or you just feel you should or you really like this guy and you want him to want you. These are all forms of self-betrayal and we really need to recognize that as such and make a different choice so that we don't dishonor ourselves. Because when we really when we dishonor ourselves in our sexuality, it is a much Harder place to heal from, whether that comes from some form of sexual violence that's done to us, or whether we're betraying ourselves and allowing that penetration to happen when we know this isn't something that we want. And that's come comes from Gina Cloud. and apparently she does has has a podcast. Gina Ecology Podcast. That's the Gina G-I-N-A-C-O-L-O-G-Y podcast. Interesting. So again, like I say, I was sexually active fif over fifty years ago and just the feeling like of betrayal, like betraying myself when I didn't feel like I just didn't feel comfortable. just like knowing that I had to work at things. But the reality of it is like I didn't know just the whole deconstructing or decolonizing or the understanding of like land back we'll say. or natural law we say. You give it certain names but for me Marina Crane (01:37:08.684) when when I get triggered by trauma, when I get triggered and the whole country is triggered by trauma and the realization that thousands of children went missing and were killed and the government just looked the other way and said poo poo. It's the same thing with indigenous women going murdered and missing. even like twenty years ago, like I like even when I was a child I used to hear stories of of indigenous women being prostitutes in Regina. Like this this s this genocide has been going on since the beginning of colonization. Like I said throughout my podcast and the millions of generations of children that have been killed. Is it any wonder why I chose not to have children? I met a actor who was Inuit, part Inuit, and he grew he was raised by a a white Scottish man who who tortured him every day. He ran away and he became a I don't want to say movie star, but he became an actor, quite well known actor. And and when I did work with him on the set of Bury My Heart It Wounded Me, he he he he spoke about he spoke about the violence that he experienced and his addiction like when he became famous and just his addiction to alcohol and drugs and just his violent temper. Like he said, he was in a relationship and he was so upset, he says he said, you know, rather than beating her or anything, he I don't know if it was her fault or his fault. He said he just took his car keys, gave his car keys to his fri or his apartment keys to his friend and says, Take everything. He says, I just drove into the States and I lived there for a while. Like it's just the way he was trying to handle his anger. And he made a comment to me that he chose not to have any children, not to have any children in this world. So even though I have put some boundaries down with with my female friends who who are over the like their age they're over sixty years old, the majority of my friends now are women who have retired. Marina Crane (01:39:28.366) who are living comfortably in retirement, whose adult children are working, whose adult children are on their own. to me, I can handle that. I can handle that type of of relationship with indigenous women. I still find it really difficult to to be friends with indigenous people, not indigenous people, white people. I I have a a friend from Antigua that I've known since high school. So there are there are certain people that I still continue to be friends with and And you know, even some people who aren't indigenous but still have some some I I d I don't know what it what you'd call it, but I I genuinely have felt and do feel that in order to respect myself I have to respect my boundaries. And if people don't respect my boundaries or my privacy, or even can't even comprehend why I choose not to be in to have any contact with them then what what can I say? It it takes a long time for people to adjust to their environments. And and for me, I chose to come home. I I chose to be involved in my community and I'm grateful. If I had lived in Utah and stayed living in Utah or in the United States, I would not have the same perspective of what it is to be indigenous or to be colonized or to be racialized or to be envied, be scapegoated, to be marginalized. all the things that that well I use I said er all the things that Trump has done to Barack Obama, all those things that narcissistic mothers do to their sons, things like these comments and understanding are so very insightful. Marina Crane (01:41:32.546) But you actually have to have lived it and breathed it and processed it and chewed it, numer like like I said, it's you when you're totally involved in mesh en meshed in it, you don't even know. You don't even know to the extent of of how much the person you're talking to is enabling you. And and for me, I I had to I had to really look at what it was that I learned in in the whole process of of exposing Nathan Chasing Horse and and heal from it and understand the the reasoning and the functioning of why I d you know had the tenacity to hold on. It it yes, it it was a a a learning lesson that I had learned without any support. Took me decades to realize that there was no statute of limitations on being sexually assaulted. But at the same time too, I knew the work experience and the education that I had prior to taking my perpetrator to court and and s having sentenced. That this this is a lifetime journey. So you have to have patience with yourself. Love yourself, have patience. show some yourself some respect and don't rush into things. Life isn't something where it's just gonna happen like abracadabra, you know, Disneyland fairy tale, you know, one, two, three, your wishes come true. No, this has been a lifelong process. And that's I think that's why sometimes when you have philosophers and people who do autobiographies or even clinicians who Who do you know, write papers and scholarly papers. It it's it's there to be tested and tried. So again, thank you for listening. at the same time too, I a cautionary note to all the academics who listen to my podcast, be aware. I put boundaries down. And I know there are a lot of fraudulent people out there who want to write ride on the coattails of like, I have an indigenous friend. Marina Crane (01:43:52.128) Or I've done this work and that work and there's millions of dollars associated with this. I have nothing. I I'm at peace. I live comfortably. The these are like I said, in this life we have seconds, we have hours, we have days, we have weeks, we have months, we have years. Marina Crane (01:44:18.344) I I'm I'm just totally grateful again for the notion of what it is what a healthy human sexual male is all about. And it's not for the lack of trying. Like I said, I had a male friend for over thirty years, a forensic psychologist, but he just wasn't there was something that just didn't click in terms of his healthy human sexual response. And and you know, bless his heart. I I know he has his own issues. I mean he's gone to therapy, he's he struggles with his own relationship. Him and his partner were separated. I don't know if they're still separated. Even his relationship with his children, his you know older children, he didn't even have a relationship with them until he became a grandfather. And then even then too, the whole need to have some connection with his in with indigenous people. I I struggle. I do I really struggle. But with him and I had to put some boundaries down and I'm grateful. but that too in its sense I'm also grateful that for all the people who you know just are are honest with me and insightful and and even for a brief period of time even though I may not be associated with some white women, I do appreciate thou those small little what what's the word? Enlightenment? Isn't that ironic? You know, this white privilege enlightenment. well actually I'm being sarcastic. I think I learned more from my indigenous indigenous female f females that I've grown up with. I've learned more about love and compassion and com the capacity Marina Crane (01:46:26.287) especially when they've come from very painful place of addiction and grief. I had my house renovated quite a few years ago. This is originally my mother's house. And a fellow who was doing the re renovation was I think he was from Iran or Persian. His name is Foy Foyad Fayad. And he said that his wife and four of his children were killed. I can't even imagine that type of tr grief. Yet yet creator and creator's will being done, the in my community there are people similar to to Faud and in and and they've they've lost so much. They've lost so much and and yet I've learned and and truly am gif grateful and gifted in the sense of being in contact with them. Because they're they're my support. in all that I've done and all that I tried to do. I'm not questioned by them. I'm not scrutinized or envied or anything with them. I'm they accept me for who I am, and that's vitally important too. So again, I'm I know I let this go on, but this is like It was it's been tearing at me into terms of narcissism and and just the the whole nature of how damaging it it is and how continuous continuously it's a continuous it's a continuous battle. Not not in terms of the person who the narcissist is talking, but the narcissist themselves. Marina Crane (01:48:28.472) Like like the just how much energy goes into them to to like that that is the nature of it. And and sometimes like I said, you have to be really steadfast in picking your battles. So with that, be kind to each other and and and for you For the men who are listening, I sure hope you know who your mothers are and how your mums raised you and and that you're looking at at what it is to be a healthy human sexual being, especially in a world where there's so many women who are out there who have have been hurt, and how you have to be there for them or for yourself and and have those healthy boundaries. Because when you fall in love, it doesn't mean sex. It just means this addiction. And and to have one partner that you're focusing all that on is a blessing. Marina Crane (01:49:45.686) So in terms of what I have to say, have a good long weekend here in Canada, Thanksgiving. And next weekend I'm going on a retreat with with young people. like I'm what can I say? I my podcast is geared to adults. and hopefully the adults that are listening that are therap therapists or working with people who are struggling, that you do your own homework. Do some self reflection because the influence you have on the most vulnerable can can really help if you have the courage to do your own healing. Have a good day. Wo Pida Midakya Piowasana before I close In the Black Hills in Rapid City this weekend, they're having their annual powwow. Huge, huge powwow. If you happen to look, go on powwow.com, Black Hills Pow Wow 2026. With that, hey, I am Sue. These are my people, the Oyate. that's the lineage I come from. So enjoy the powwow.

The Complexities of Gender Dynamics

Thanks for sharing this transcript. It covers a wide range of interconnected themes through Marina Crane's personal reflections, cultural perspective, and commentary on several speakers and topics. Core Themes 1. Truth, reconciliation, and Indigenous identity Marina describes an ongoing personal journey of understanding Indigenous history, reconciliation, and the impacts of colonialism. She argues that many Indigenous people have been denied access to their own histories and contributions. A recurring idea is that "Land Back" is not simply about territory but about belonging, dignity, homeland, and being recognized as fully human within one's own land. 2. Information overload and finding one's own voice Drawing on comments by author Arundhati Roy, Marina reflects on the enormous volume of information people now consume. She worries that constant exposure to media, social platforms, and artificial intelligence can make it difficult to distinguish one's own thoughts from those absorbed from others. Her podcast serves as a way to process information, reflect, and maintain a connection to her own perspective. 3. Aging, reflection, and legacy As she approaches 75, Marina discusses closure, personal growth, and community work. She emphasizes that she does not see herself as a therapist or academic expert but as an elder sharing knowledge accumulated through lived experience. She sees her community, rather than children or grandchildren, as her legacy. 4. Love, limerence, and human attachment A major section focuses on romantic love and limerence. Marina references research suggesting romantic love activates reward pathways in the brain and can resemble addiction. She distinguishes between: Healthy attachment and genuine connection. Limerence, where a person becomes attached to a fantasy or idealized version of someone. She repeatedly returns to the concepts of: Relapse and recovery. Self-defeating behavior. Learning to separate fantasy from reality. 5. The "pothole" metaphor Marina uses a recurring metaphor of driving down a road filled with potholes. The potholes represent destructive thought patterns, traumas, and recurring behaviors. Growth involves recognizing them, avoiding them when possible, and recovering more quickly when one falls back into them. 6. Trauma and healing She connects personal trauma, Indigenous trauma, addiction, relationship difficulties, and mental health struggles. Her view is that healing involves developing awareness, accepting responsibility, and understanding the origins of harmful patterns. 7. Women's experiences, feminism, and power Marina discusses several controversial perspectives on feminism, motherhood, patriarchy, and women's social roles. She reflects on the historical burdens carried by women while also expressing criticism of behaviors she associates with narcissism, manipulation, or enabling. These sections are highly opinionated and reflect her personal interpretations rather than established consensus. 8. Inclusion versus belonging Inspired by remarks from Zina Jacques, Marina draws a distinction between: Being included in a space. Truly belonging in that space. She relates this directly to Indigenous experiences in Canadian society. Overall Message The transcript is fundamentally about identity, belonging, healing, love, and personal responsibility. Marina argues that: People need to understand themselves and each other more deeply. Falling in and out of love is a normal human experience, not inherently a mental illness. Recovery from trauma requires confronting reality rather than avoiding it. Indigenous peoples continue to struggle with questions of belonging and homeland. Reflection, community, and honest conversation are necessary for personal and collective growth. One sentence that captures much of the transcript's message might be: Love, healing, and reconciliation all begin with understanding ourselves, understanding each other, and finding where we truly belong.

Marina Crane (00:01.306) good afternoon, Marina Crane, October 7th. And you might be wondering why am I posting so many things on October 7th? Well, really I'm not. I posted because I didn't post a couple of days ago and so I'm catching up in posting. And I think I'm getting over the hump of truth and reconciliation, but again too, that narrative will never cease with me, only because so much history was denied to me as a young person. Like as a child like the only thing that I had as a child was the fact that my parents came back from South American India and telling me stories and things that they saw and witnessed in museums and just the po general populace. Whereas I wouldn't if I had just gone to school without reading, because I wasn't an avid reader, I would have missed out on a hell of a lot. And I and that's the regret is is the fact that I've got to do a podcast because there are a lot of indigenous people who who don't have that connection to academics, academia, or or even intellectuals or or people who just want who are just thirsty for knowledge or reconciliation. I'm just very grateful that I get invited to to talk as an elder knowledge keeper within the city or even and I and I'm talking about not just youth but in public art as well as well as contributing to whatever I can within my community and for for young people people within my community because I think the strata or the complexities of just the diversity even within my community i is getting greater. I I think sometimes too it it could be just an overload of information. So I'm going to play a couple of things that has to do with just being a female. And if that offends you or if it's triggering you, and you're going, no, not another female point of view, you know, welcome to change. But again, to my loyal followers and to those academics who have been reaching out to me in email, like I appreciate that, but part of my podcast is to say, like, I've just had it. Like, you know, I I've had I've had a a friendship for 30 years with a forensic psychological. Marina Crane (02:18.32) Psychologist. I had years of therapy. I've gone to school and taken basic psychology. The whole nature of having people, especially white people, befriending me and then ghosting me or just having some sort of religious epiphany like thou shalt not. And I'm going, no, that's crossing my boundaries. I just can't handle that. I cannot handle the fact that. People get uncomfortable when when I'm saying this is who I am and this is what I'm comfortable with. And and yet they go, what do pe how do people react to you? I'm going, well how what the hell? What's the point of asking how do people react to me? The whole point is I'm saying something that, in my opinion, is my truth. And and why should it be offensive when it's it's it's I'm open for debate, I'm open for conversation. That that's the reality of it. I mean I'm not l maybe maybe the sense is they've met so many indigenous people who fawn or people who just go fawning around and you know, trying to not make waves or like trying to to keep a friendship even though there you might not feel comfortable within it. So this most of the information I do get is f either from Instagram or or TikTok or just things that I I want to do in my podcast. And and again too, it it's not an addiction to the podcast that I'm talking about. I think it's the reality that as I age and the fact that I need to gather information and and put it out there gives me practice so that I'm practicing it every day. Because once I do have like once I do engage with people the people who witness the engagement are taking away something. And and there's a certain skill set that that a person needs to have in order for that to happen. Okay, so again there are certain things I do think that we need to talk about and think about. And so here is this lady I don't I think her Marina Crane (04:38.444) Let's see, I'm not too sure if I even have her. it's Female Pop Poet Society. And the speaker is A-R-U-N-D-H-A-T-I-R. And you can see her, she's a Lewis Literary Award winner. And this is her her She's s one of the ladies said, This is why I sit down, read and write by ourselves without devices. I've been doing this for a little time now, maybe an hour, and my mind is much more calmer, steadier, without constant influx of information. See, and and like and and that's the I think part of my whole podcast is I have time to sit down and and debrief with myself, as well as like anybody who comes comes and visits me, then they might think, gee, she's just so talking. She must be bored out of the yin yang. But here we go. Enjoy my podcast and thank you again for tuning in. I don't think there's ever been a time in the history of the human race when human beings have had to process so much information. And and people who have more information are more valued. I think that's so dangerous in some ways. Please try and switch off for at least one day a week to begin with. You don't need all this information. You don't need to know everything about everything. It's unnatural, it's not necessary. You need to know the earth, your neighbors, the birds, the dogs, whatever. But I think it's destroying us. It's not a moral judgment. It's just the the volume of information that they are required to process. It's it's so hard to know even what your own thoughts are, what your own language is, what your own voice is, what your own feelings are. Are are you sure they're your feelings or are they or did you just get it out of Facebook or Instagram, you know? Marina Crane (06:51.532) I don't think there's ever that's what I'm saying. It's like the information is out there, especially artificial intelligence. And and just to to be collective and sort through it all, for me with my podcast that's that's basically what I do, but I'm I'm taking it from an indigenous perspective in terms of time, the timeline of of my development, my own personal personal development. And I I think too if if you if you've had time Like I grew up without any TV. there was some radio, but I was always outdoors. And and so that's my earliest memory in early childhood development. I do worry about like my grandchildren who or even my nieces, like I I I yes, I got Liebfrog from my niece. She started reading by the time she was three. she's in she's thirty, thirty-one now, avid reader. but again too. all the influence of children like when they're babies is so vital. I sometimes like I like I say it's imagine a tree and at the base of the tree like the roots the trunk and then the leaves and the foliage and and so human development is is based like that in the sense that by the time the tree is totally developed we're like in our early twenties and and how how the nurturing of that from a sapling Like a seedling to a sapling to a shrub and then and so on is based on is based on the nurturing of the environment. And I think that's why this lady, when she's talking about taking time like to collect your own thoughts, your own language, like who you are, is important because a lot of times when I listen to Instagram and podcasts, I I listen. I enjoy more the visual of seeing things. Like I I followed this fellow who's an abbot. photographer, beautiful photographs, then he just stopped posting his photos. and the analogy of it is like the imagery. So with a painting or even the process of staring at a landscape. Like I have a beautiful landscape outside my patio. I I'm just really grateful that my the last part of my life I'm experiencing all this peace and quiet. Marina Crane (09:20.534) And hopefully I can I can ha s somehow share these things with you that are important. And so again I I'm not apologizing for posting so much today. It's just that I'm catching up. There's a catch-up part of of what I'm trying to post because I know I know in the next couple of weeks I'm gonna be quite busy. And at the same time too, I want to sort of get some collective thoughts in place because there's a lot of projects that are coming up that are going to be quite impactful in the next year, like 2027, is 150 years of make of Treaty 7 and also the referendum on separation for Alberta is coming up. And there's so much economic development too happening in Sutina. Just the whole nature of of what What's evolving? On top of all that, like I'm I'm going to be turning 75 in January. And the things I want to do, like like I'm really seriously thinking of traveling to Hong Kong. So anyway, we'll go on with my podcast, and again, thank you all for listening. And I hope and again, I'm not discouraging academics to emailing me. I appreciate the emails and you know the like you know, the content of your your emails. but I'm I'm just letting putting it out there. I am not a therapist. I don't have a master's in social work or psychology, nothing like that. This is this is elder knowledge, this is knowledge that I've acquired throughout my life. And and if it seems profound and and you're like, my goodness, well that's because a lot of this information hasn't been you haven't had access to it. That's why for me, I haven't had access to a hell of a lot of things that indigenous people Marina Crane (11:19.754) Have contributed to North America. And then when I get strangers from Europe who are just fascinated by my narrative, and I'm going, what the hell for? And that's sad. That's sad. Like when I talk about land back, it's the homeland. So here is a European going, How is it to be in your homeland? And I'm trying to explain to the European, I don't know what it's like. I don't know what it's like because I'm living in systemic racism. If I leave the community I'm I'm still bombarded by the way white people see me. So if I if I was black and American and I went to gua Uganda, it would take a week or two weeks for me to feel like I'm a human being because I'm amongst all other black people. And if I if a police officer pulls me over, I'm a human being being pulled over. I'm not being pulled over because I'm black. And I use that as an analogy for First Nations Inuit Metis people. It's it's this is our homeland, Canada, North America, this is our homeland. But the reality The reality of it is that we don't know what it feels like. Like hum like maybe maybe a hundred years ago, like with my grandpa with my grandmother or my parents, in some inkling they understood homeland. But for me, turning seventy-five and I saw my first white person when I was five, or like even younger, but to actually be around like a a w someone like a child as I'm a child, I think I was five. But I just want you to understand this relationship or the lack of relationship has has put me Marina Crane (13:07.424) as a woman in a state of constant flux. And that flux that I talk about is duality in the sense of balancing erotic and limerence. Because even though it's perceived as a mental health dynamic, it it's a it's a narrative that is used in order to educate non-Indigenous people. Because that's what we have in common as human beings. If they can relate to me in terms of erodomania or limerence, then they grasp it. But other than that, for For them to understand what it feels to be a human being within our own homeland. This is Canada. This is indigenous land. And yet my generation, and I swear it, I swear by it, that's the reason of my podcast, is I don't know what it feels to have land back. I don't know what it feels to be in the homeland. Because some because I don't live in that society. This society is systemic racist, it's colonized. However, I feel like I'm safe, it's a false safety. It's a real false safety. So so when people have been stereotyping Africa, like what this year they actually did drew the actual map of Africa and how many continents and countries can fit in the whole continent of Africa, and and that's their homeland. Okay, so that you can go there and you can feel like you're a human being. But see What is it to be an indigen what is it to be an indigenous person in the Americas? That's why I think a lot of young people say, We want our land back. We want land back. That's that's homeland. That's that's to feel like a human being. So, you know, get off your high horse and think that we want all this land back. We want some dignity and respect here. I mean it it's It's it's for me as an indigenous person and and and trying to di dissect and understand these concepts, especially as an elder, it it's not that easy. And I and and for me being around other elders and seeing self-defeating behavior i i is critical because it's also happening like with with young people in their thirties and hopefully, you know, we're trying to deal with self-defeating behavior by the time a child is a teenager and a young adult. Marina Crane (15:26.768) It's harder, it's harder if if you're living in denial. It's one thing to talk about denialism of Indian residential school. It's another thing to talk about denialism when you when you're s when your whole attitude in white privilege is based on like worshiping that that ideology. Okay, because it has nothing to do with land back. Anaclove is one of the most addictive substances on earth. I and my colleagues, Art Aaron and Lucy Brown and others, have put 37 people who are madly in love into a functional MRI brain scanner. 17 who are happily in love, 15 who had just been dumped, and we're just starting our third experiment, studying people who report that they're still in love after 10 to 25 years of marriage. So this is the short story of that research. Our first study of people who are happily in love found activity in a tiny little factory near the base of the brain called the ventral tagmetal. area. We found activity in some cells called the A10 cells, cells that actually make dopamine a natural stimulant and spray it to many brain regions. Indeed this part, the VTA, is part of the brain's reward system. It's way below your cognitive thinking process. It's below your emotions. It's part of what we call the reptilian core of the brain, associated with wanting, with motivation, with focus and with craving. In fact, the same brain region where we found activity becomes Marina Crane (16:58.114) But romantic love is much more than a cocaine high. At least you come down from cocaine. Romantic love is an obsession. It possesses you. You lose your sense of self. You can't stop thinking about another human being. Somebody is camping in your head. And the obsession can get worse when you've been rejected. Looking at the data of the people who were put into the machine after they had just been dumped. We found activity in exactly the same brain region associated with intense romantic love. That brain system, the reward system for wanting, for motivation, for craving, for focus becomes more active when you can't get what you want. In this case, life's greatest prize, an appropriate mating partner. We found activity in other brain regions also, in a brain region associated with calculating gains and losses. You're calculating, you know, what went wrong. How how what you know what have I lost? And indeed, it's this brain part of the brain, the core of the nucleus of cuments actually that's becoming active as you're measuring your gains and losses. So what have I learned from this experiment that I would like to tell the world? Foremost, I've come to think that romantic love is a drive, a basic mating drive. Not the sex drive. The sex drive gets you out there looking for a whole range of partners. Romantic love enables you to focus your mating energy on just one at a time, conserve your mating energy, and start the mating process with a single individual. I've also come to believe that romantic love is an addiction, a perfectly wonderful addiction when it's going well, and a perfectly horrible addiction when it's going poorly. And indeed, it has all of the characteristics of addiction. You focus on the person, you obsessively think about them, you crave them, you distort reality, and it's got the three main characteristics of addiction: tolerance, you need to see more and more and more. Withdrawals, and last but not relapse. So, one thing I would like The medical and the medical community and the legal community and even the college community to see if they can understand that indeed romantic love is one of the most addictive substances on earth. So my final statement is: love is in us, it's deeply embedded in the brain. Our challenge is to understand each other. Marina Crane (19:21.646) And that's what's so profound is to understand is to understand each other. Okay. So when I talk about Marina Crane (19:33.676) When I talk about healthy human sexuality, it's to understand each other. It's the it's it's the the deconstruction of the self. It's it's understanding self-defeating behavior because it's the the journey of deconstructing the self-defeating behavior because there there are processes of of relapse and recovery. so that you're imagine driving down a road and this is the analogy I use over and over again and and people can sort of like, my goodness, this is so boring. But you you're driving down the road and there's a bunch of potholes. Nobody's filling them. So so as you're driving, when you have more self-defeating thoughts, you're hitting those potholes all the time. And you see that like when you're in meetings like it like for me with elders and I see the majority of them constantly hitting those potholes and it It g it's so self-defeating because we're not there to to listen to self-defeating ideologies or ideologies. The self-defeating person, okay, you're driving down the road and you see the pottle and you drive right into it. You know you're driving into it. And my late mother used to say, I know I'm driving into it and I just can't help myself. Like and the thing is like, how do you avoid it? Well, you have to s do self-reflection and and when you have obtrusive thoughts, how do you eliminate them because you have to use a different narrative in your mind. You're taking words like shoulda, woulda, coulda, or always and like you're and again too, these are completely natural thought patterns. However, again, you're driving down the road and you see a pothole and and so you know to avoid it and so you drive around it. And you every pothole you see you drive around. But once in a while you hit the pothole. And and that's called relapse. But again to recovery, it again How long you recover is based on how many times you've learned the lesson. And so, for me, when I've seen people who are experts in limerence, without them understanding that love is an addiction, but it's also important, it's a tool to understand each other. And and that's the the crazy part, and the whole beauty of it is to fall in love with another human being because you know that you're learning. Marina Crane (21:58.368) Learning something profound about yourself and that individual. We have to learn to understand each other. So when somebody says they have a cure, there's no cure. The the and and again, too, that's the pitfall of mental health and practitioners. Is it's like medicine men or witches or priests or, you know, like people who claim to have this solution when really it's just You know, somebody trying to make a a dollar. an honest dollar, an honest buck. Okay, so the whole po point of of understanding the nature of it is is especially if you're from a different culture and I think even though I I talk as an ind indigenous woman, this applies in terms of of love for all human beings. So that when you meet somebody from a different culture and and you're you're like you see the pothole And and so yes, it it's it's going to be a dance around missing that pothole, re relapse and recovery, because not having that person that you're in love with is so heartbreaking. And and so of course, yes, you don't want to ever hit that pothole, but you but the thing is with love you're gonna hit that pothole. And and it's okay to to obsess about the person that that's no longer obtainable. And it's okay because again, the degree of of that self-defeating behavior is based on past experience. Marina Crane (23:36.246) Now I'm going to play this and I said there's so many practitioners out there who have this theory on limerence, but I try to talk about it in terms of being a minority and using it as a narrative between the two. One is about fantasy and ghosting, so that you know that you're the person that you're falling in love with will walk away. The other one is erotic where you're falling in love with somebody, but it's based on on on reality. And and that unreality can go into dangerous a dangerous area of of violence. So again too in a cautionary tale is is You know, really taking a look at like again, when you're fall in love, are you falling in love what like i is this to understand another human being? But if you're being really obsessive and looking for per like possession or ownership or some sort of narcissistic Machiavellian, like it's r you know, you you have to really think that people cannot be that naive. That's why like healthy human sexuality is is like learning about it so that you're not naive. That you're not naive about it and that you can you can have some sort of skill set when you see that pothole to drive around it. I mean, potholes are gonna be potholes. And and but at the same time too, it's okay like that you avoid them and say you're in a relationship and you're both avoiding those potholes. But then when a pothole hits and you and you just separate, that's a human condition. Like like in my previous podcasts and just with in terms of anthropology and evolution, human beings are are we're we're made to bond. But the basic psychology of it is is when I talk about in Indian residential schools or just people who Marina Crane (25:34.076) have been impoverished and been traumatized, that that self def that self defeating behavior becomes like really what the per it's as a it's like paralyzed you or rigid or or just like the inability that fear the that holding on and not wanting to let go or like I I I think in in the extreme, extreme cases when children have gone through horrific experiences, they develop multiple personalities. And even so, you know, there are there are elders in my community who have like I I swear they have different personalities and and the thing is for for whatever reason they hold on to that. And the fact that they've never really let go of it i is is heartbreaking. Because because the the structure isn't like the structure's gone l a long time ago. So we'll say the Indian agent or the Indian residential school or the day home of the hospitals, whatever was traumatizing, it's gone. But but that fear and that rigidity is is still in place. And and understanding it and allowing yourself to, you know, hit that pothole, but but but understanding what triggered it. Okay, so. Anyway, here we go. You may have heard me talk about limerence before, but I think that many people still misunderstand what limerence actually is. Most people think that it simply means that you're thinking about someone a lot, but that's really not what makes limerence unique. Marina Crane (27:14.07) In fact, one of the most important things to understand is that limerence doesn't necessarily change who the person is. It changes how you see them. And that distinction can change everything. Let me try to explain this. One of the questions that I hear all the time after a breakup is this. Why can't I stop thinking about them? I also hear questions like, why am I still obsessed with somebody who clearly doesn't want me in their lives? Or why does it feel like I'll never find someone like them again? And many times people assume that the answer is really simple. They think to themselves, well, it must be because I really love them. But sometimes what they're experiencing is not love at all. Sometimes it's limerence. The term limerence was first introduced by psychologist Dorothy Tetoff. And she spent years studying intense romantic infatuation. And what she discovered was really fascinating. People experiencing limerence often develop intrusive thoughts about another person. And listen, these are not occasional thoughts, these are constant thoughts. Thoughts that show up while you're working, thoughts that show up while you're driving, thoughts that show up while you're trying to sleep, thoughts that seem to have a life of their own. Thoughts that seem to come out of nowhere. The person becomes the center of your emotional universe, and here's where things become really complicated: the limerant mind doesn't see people objectively, it sees them selectively. Want you to really think about that. When you're limerant. Marina Crane (29:07.106) Your brain starts highlighting evidence that supports a fantasy in your mind. You focus on their good qualities. You focus on moments of connection. You focus on potential. You focus on chemistry. You focus on the future that you imagined you were going to have together. Meanwhile, the flaws get minimized. Marina Crane (29:37.794) The inconsistencies get explained away, the red flags get rationalized, the reality gets edited. And before long, you may not actually be relating to the real person anymore. You may be relating to the version of them that exists inside your mind. And that's why I often tell people: the most dangerous thing about limerence isn't that it makes you obsessed. It's Because it convinces you that your obsession is evidence of something, you think, I can't stop thinking about them, therefore they must be really special. Or I've never felt this strongly before, therefore they must be my soulmate. Or you may think, I can't move on, therefore we must belong together. But none of those conclusions actually follow. All they prove is that your emotions are really intense, and that's it. Intensity and compatibility are not the same thing. Intensity and relational health are not the same thing. Intensity and destiny are certainly not the same thing. And one of the reasons that limerence is so powerful is because it feeds on uncertainty. And this is one of the most fascinating parts of the research. Healthy love tends to grow through consistency. Limerence seems to grow through inconsistency. The text that comes and goes, the mixed signals, the situation ship, the ex who reaches out and then disappears. The person who seems interested one day and seems distant the next. For many people, certainty calms the nervous system. Uncertainty activates it. The brain starts searching for answers, searching for clues, searching for reassurance, searching for certainty. And so every little interaction suddenly seems meaningful. They watched my story. What does that mean? They liked my post. What does that mean? They texted after three weeks. What does that mean? Marina Crane (31:59.298) They used a heart emoji. What does that mean? The mind becomes a detective. It becomes trapped in analysis. And what many people don't realize is that this cycle can become emotionally addictive. Your mood starts rising and falling based on somebody else's behavior. If they reach out, you're okay. If they disappear, you become anxious. If they show interest, you're hopeful. If they pull away, you're devastated. Your emotional state becomes extremely and externally regulated. And that's a very dangerous place to be because your peace is no longer coming from within. Your peace is being controlled by someone else's choices and decisions. One of the saddest things that I see is when people begin organizing their entire lives around another person's attention. They check their phone constantly, they monitor social media, they analyze conversations, they replay memories, they literally postpone healing because they're waiting for something to happen. Weeks pass, months pass, sometimes even years pass. Not because they're still deeply connected to that person, but because they're deeply connected to the fantasy of that person. And that's the part that many people don't want to hear. Often the hardest thing to let go of isn't the person. It's the future you imagined with that person. The life that you pictured inside your mind. The relationship you hoped was going to happen, the validation that you wanted. The loneliness that you thought that they would somehow solve, the emotional needs you believed that they would finally meet. The person becomes the container holding all of those hopes and dreams, which is why letting go feels like losing part of yourself. You're not simply grieving who they are, you're grieving who you thought they could be. You're grieving who you thought you would become together. Marina Crane (34:15.288) with them. And that's a very different kind of loss. Now, I want to be careful here. I'm not saying that your feelings aren't real. They are real. The longing is real, the sadness is real, the grief Marina Crane (34:33.772) Real, the attachment is real. What I'm saying is that the story attached to those feelings may not always be accurate. Love sees people as they are. Limerence often sees people as we need them to be. Love accepts reality. Limerence often resists reality. Love grows through knowing someone. Limerence often grows through imagining someone. And these are important distinctions. If you find yourself relating to this, I want you to know you're not crazy, you're not weak, you're not broken. You're experiencing a very real psychological phenomenon that millions of people every year experience. The good news is that awareness creates freedom. Once you can identify limerence, you can begin separating the fantasy from the reality. And once you can separate fantasy from reality, you can begin reclaiming your own emotional power. Once you stop viewing someone through the lens of obsession, you can finally start seeing both them and yourself more clearly. If these conversations about attachment and Heartbreak and limerence and healing and emotional recovery are helping you, I would encourage you to follow along. Listen to the c so again, there are a whole bunch of psychologists. When I went to university in the States and see these the limerence too isn't just on human beings. It could be reality like not like looking at university and realizing like you're not academically prepared for it and that's heartbreaking. Or or thinking and not being able to comprehend the material. certain things insert a self-defeating behavior. When when I worked with high risk suicide girls, the main structure that we as as supervisors or Marina Crane (36:48.3) like as we were attending and watching and and documenting behavior was was the words consistent and inconsistency. And and and that was like really eye-opening for me was the reality of like what is consistent and what is inconsistent. So when you're talking about reality and fantasy and the things that are factual, that you're you're trying to you're trying to get the individual to stay in reality. and and understand like this is their responsibility. This they're they're taking you're trying to help them take ownership of whatever behavior that they were involved in which was self destructive. So the the reality of it too is like when you're saying that it has to do with reality, the the the extreme of it is erodomania because it it has there there's no reality there. The it's it's not it's not a fantasy. It's it's based on like something really extreme. So so that's why I'm saying there's there there is a point in in the whole creation of this what we call love and and how we perceive it because it it's one thing to be physically like to to have sex, but it's another thing to be drawn to an individual and actually work on on what is real. The the structure of it too isn't isn't easy. It it it isn't it's never easy. And the the thing about it for me the clim for for me is the the thing is when people say you're educated and then if I meet other indigenous people or other educated people does not mean that they have a handle on limerance. Like like like like I said, it's normal. It's a normal feeling. Everybody experiences it. And and I use the analogy of women, like years ago when women weren't allowed to own a a credit card or an apartment, and even the fact like when they first got married, their wedding night could have been one of sexual assault, and that they would think that that's what is normal, that's what love is, to be raped every night. Or or the woman is a virgin and on her wedding night she collects she catches a trans sexually transmitted disease. Or or the fact that Marina Crane (39:13.826) that she gets beaten up if she doesn't submit. So a lot of these structures in terms of like I again, I truly believe like people have gone and been involved in cults in order to sort of feel like and have some support in what is real. But a lot of times in these cult like forms, it it also it can be dangerous. Like you said, there are s there is danger to things. So so when they had the Oxford group was established in Mackinac Island, Michigan and during the Second World War. And again they recruited a lot of Native Americans. Like I said in my one podcast, you know, the whole nature of billionaires doing things to to incorporate their own companies into third world countries. That was going on in this that's been going on forever. But it but what I'm trying to say is that even self help groups have have have that foundation of of like recruitment and and so like when they had the Oxford group and Alcoholics Anonymous and the reason I'm s so structured about this is because my late father, when he belonged to this moral rearmament movement, that that was the Oxford group. And they had psychologists and therapists who were part of this group, educated group, but not once did they ever, ever help my parents. And and so the structure wasn't for the individual, it was for the whole collective of the group, the Oxford group. And they're per they were promoting like AA. And and also understand this. Why I'm talking about AA is that Limerence, a limerence group broke off from like they not broke off, they created a support group within the structure of Alcoholics Anonymous. So there was Alcoholics Anonymous, Al Anon. And then there was also this alcohol like this Limerence support group. And it was based like so understand this. Al Anon is a support group for spouses whose partners are alcoholic. That's a way of understanding the realities of the individual who has the addiction. Understand this too, when when the lady is talking about addiction, like love is is the most powerful addiction. Marina Crane (41:32.844) That's what we're dealing with and and the structure and how people manipulate or use coercive control to to f fulfill their ideology. So a lot of when I talk about healthy human sexuality and getting to know another human being, it's to have that courage to heal. We use that as a as a conund like a a a conundrum or a mo mo motive or a motto a motto. Yeah. So so these women who married these men who were going to AA, they became Al Anonon participants. And the more they started talking in these El Anon groups, they found out that they had a lot of things in common which had to do with trauma. Trauma based on the woman themselves as well as the men. So the relationship was based on trauma bonds. Based on that, they developed the limerence group where they had a support group just for limerence. So that's why when when people talk about cults and when like how long this limerence could hold on. And for me to see all these women and children who were who were drinking the Kool-Aid, who were drinking the Kool-Aid of Limerence towards Nathan's chasing horse, that was the main impetus when I first met him because I'd already experienced what limerence was. I'd already been studying self defeating behavior, like how to eliminate a self defeating behavior. So when I spotted that, I didn't realize just how encompassing it was and how debilitating it it can be, especially if the person who's in limerence doesn't want to face reality. They they don't want you to knock them back into reality. And that was the whole point too when I worked with high-risk teenage girls. They had to be under lock and key because they struggled not to, not to. They just did not want to live in reality. And and and you know, like to and to have accountability for their actions if they hurt somebody. Because the thing is they were a danger to themselves and others. That meant that that meant that they wanted to kill themselves as well as the propensity to kill others. And the youngest child that I watched was a twelve year old. And she was given special permission to be in our ward because her and her mother had a psychotic break and killed the grandmother. And she was so angel like. So Marina Crane (43:56.524) So the r the reality of like how dangerous how dangerous it like like the obsessive compulsive behavior can be and and for for guided imagery to help the individual or the youth come to terms on their own of what behavior they need to change. So that's the basic structure of it and why I thought I'd focus on limerence because it's it's it's something that that happens all the time. All the time. Like I said, it's it's it's part of being human. It's part of healthy human sexuality. We will fall in love and out of love continuously. And and the degree the degree of it is based on how much we're willing to to engage in that relationship. what can I say? What can I say? A relationship's emotional intensity exceeds its relational capacity, you keep having experiences that feel bigger than what the relationship can actually hold. The conversations are deep, the chemistry is strong, the vulnerability is real, and there are moments of closeness that feel so rare. But the relationship itself cannot support any of these moments. There's not enough consistency, time, shared memories, integration, or foundation. So the connection keeps producing more feeling. Than structure. Imagine pouring a gallon of water into an eight-ounce cup. There's nothing wrong with the water. The glass just cannot contain it. So eventually you have to stop pouring. This is where so many people will end up living in relational purgatory. Too connected to move on, too limited to move forward. And this is where self-respect needs to kick in strong. They may love you, they may be struggling, they may care about you, they may miss you, they may think about you. They may even be doing the absolute best that they currently know how. But none of that changes their eight-ounce cup and the gallon of water you're trying to pour into it. You have to create distance. Distance is the way that you can let the connection naturally die down without intellectually having to force yourself there. Eventually you will stop asking, how can I give up something so powerful? And you start asking, why was I allowing something this powerful to hold so little responsibility? Marina Crane (46:15.586) When a relationship's emotional intensity exceeds its relational capacity, you keep having experiences that feel bigger than what the relationship can actually hold. The conversations are deep, the chemistry is strong, the vulnerability is real, and there are moments of closeness that feel so rare. But the relationship itself cannot support any of these moments. There's not enough consistency, time, shared memories, integration. or foundation. So the connection keeps producing more feeling than structure. Imagine pouring a gallon of water into an eight ounce cup. There's nothing wrong with So the word consistency, and that's the whole point of it, is when the behavior is consistent and you and you're validating that with the individual who is experiencing relapse. Because because the potential of recovery is what they're experiencing for themselves, so that they know that okay, the cup, you know, you're pouring they're pouring a gallon of water into an eight-ounce cup. But the reality of it is they themselves have to see how big that eight ounce cup is, even though it seems overwhelming that this gallon of water is there. So imagine my podcast is a gallon of water, and you as my audience are holding an eight ounce cup, and I'm constantly talking about limerence and healthy human sexuality, and and you're going, Wait is it when is it gonna stop? See, and the reality there's got to be consistency. And and the and what the consistency. Consistency, like I said, when I took this job and we're writing, and we have to write reports of what is the consistent or inconsistency of behavior. That was the reality or the checkpoint of reality, because again, you can't be intrusive and read their thoughts, but you can see and understand their behavior when they act out. And so that's it's a consistent behavior. And it can be a consistent self-defeating behavior. Marina Crane (48:18.544) When but when it's a consistent behavior based on reality, then you then you say, okay, you're validating that, that this is consistent. So what does it all mean? Like I remember meeting and falling in love with a a deserter from the Vietnam War. He was twenty five and I was I had turned eighteen. And the chemistry and everything was there. But again to the dynamics of of the gallon of water this man held and the eight ounce cup that I had. And and knowing for me at that age that I knew that I couldn't hold the capacity of that gallon of water, and I walked away. And and and again to it's important. It's important to to understand so there are some things that you just have to walk away from the water. The glass but the water. The glass just cannot this w so Most of the time when I try to talk about things that I hope will be relate you'd be able to relate to as a woman, a lot and and a man too, is because like it it's both ways. That's the nature of being human beings. I I tend to think that that men are are don't ha like some men don't have the capacity, but again, too a hell of a lot of women don't either. So because it's not just men who are dangerous, there are women who are dangerous. Like 70% of Women involved in trafficking, like they're involved in trafficking. Women who give up their daughters to their their partners, like they're like these are men and women who have a child who trafficked that child. Like that's the reality. Like again, how inconsistent is it? So when we talk about consistency, we're talking about the protection of the most vulnerable. When two people know that it's the responsibility, this is the reality. But if the bait, but it's Marina Crane (50:21.546) ba if it's based on a trauma bond and and the inability to not understand reality then then you're in trouble. You're you're you're you're you how who do you who do you depend on to to help you? I think for me the time and the effort to to do that is is hard. And at my age I don't have the capacity to do that. So so it's important it's important for women to Okay, hold on. It's important for women to this one is going to be a little this I'm trying to get this down here. Sometimes sometimes some of this stuff doesn't even Register because I don't know if it doesn't. Why men should have zero input on abortion. Since nineteen eighty-five, over three million US soldiers, mostly men, have been unalived in combat. Since nineteen eighty-five, over sixteen million women have died due to pregnancy complications and childbirth. Anybody clinging to the idea that men are the ones who are sacrificing in the American and patriarchal society are fucking delusional. Why men should have zero input on abortion. Since 1985, over 3 million US soldiers, mostly men, have been unalived in combat. Since 1985, over 16 million women have died due to pregnancy complications and childbirth. Anybody clinging to the idea that men are the ones who are sacrificing in the American and patriarchal society are fucking delusional. Why men should have zero input on abortion. Since 1985. Okay, so again, like I l I think the the whole point in terms of matriarchy, in in terms of of empowering women and in in terms of women understanding the reality of the the we're we're ba like women are are the moms that they're the ones who are going to be like they they follow their children throughout their whole life. But it but it's the degree and the the the nature, the h I don't wanna say capacity and maybe Marina Crane (52:37.666) It is the word capacity for a woman to to honor and respect themselves so that they have good quality life, that they don't get burnt out all the time, that they that they can enjoy their life. And and f for me when the the rates of of what's happening to women and Well, I I I don't know like how how I can throw a life preserver out there so that a woman can grab it and and realize like, okay, somebody's helping me. It it's like the numbness or the lack of of pe women being there, well not just women. I think it's the reality of patriarchy, the denial of what men have covered up for women, the truth of the reality of what women go through. Much the same thing in terms of history of indigenous people. The whole history has been suppressed. And I think too in terms of women, I think that that patriarchy patriarchy has done this to to women is is this this whole notion that that you know this doesn't this you know we were patriarchs there, you know, again again what they wanted to do, how much testosterone men are in the the military. I You know, I for whatever reason and however it's been built up for all these hundreds of military US bases around the world, just the the notion of patriarchy, and yet we have eight billion people in this world. Eight billion. And patriarchy is what? Trying to hold on to that? Hold on to, you know, like the fact that they have can so much control over the the the governance of women's bodies, the the mental health health of women, the the the lack of empowerment. So even though I can talk about healthy human sexuality, it's all encompassing. It's all encompassing. And I'm just using a petri dish of my life in how it reflects all this, all this other stuff that that we've sort of poo-pooed and looked away and say, no, it doesn't exist, but it does. Marina Crane (54:55.978) And and the thing of the the Petri dish is when you're looking at it and you see the amount of murdered and missing indigenous women and girls and two-spirited, then you look at the petri dish again and all of them lined up and the thousands of children that went missing and you know, killed in these residential schools, then you look back 500 years, five generations of children unalived. Then you look at what, eighteen the that this man said sixteen million women have died from complications with with childbirth, like with abortions, with you know, just like ch women's health. And and and then you wonder like why why is it so hard to to look at the history the history of how we treat the most vulnerable? Because then it has a reflection on on our responsibility. If if we do if we are in some ways responsible. Marina Crane (56:00.876) This is a question that women ask, and mostly femin so called feminists from of the glory of Stein and Ilk or whatever they now want to call themselves, the third wave, second wave, whatever wave they are. And this is a very bourgeois feminist notion because they always think that we have to get out of the kitchen. And you know what black women said? You know, my mother said when they had get out of the kitchen and into the street, yeah, I'd like to get out of the kitchen in your kitchen. And it didn't even occur to these Betty Friedens and and and and and and and whatever her name is, former CIA agent bunny, Gloria Steinem. I mean she admits that she worked for the CIA, so it's not something Elaine is making up, okay? She talks about it and she was also a Playboy Bunny. And Gloria Steinem and and Betty Freedom, that group, those are the kinds of people that constantly said all the Black Panthers were chauvinists, so I didn't want to be in it. So I go, okay, fine, what group are you in? Because you denounced the woman that became Roe, but she said she didn't accept third trimester abortion. I you know, and and and I won't I'm gonna finish proselytizing on this. I just want to make clear that who cooked the food, like what? What a difference does it make? We thought of ourselves as an organization. If you had a job to do, you had an assignment. We were a paramilitary organization in the sense that people did not vote on what you did or what you didn't do. If you could cook, you would be cooking. If you could handle a gun, you would be handling a gun. Most women could not handle guns like men could, although all of us were trained on weapons. Okay? So if you want to ask me about the internal workings of the Black Panther Party, then we can ask that. Marina Crane (57:41.952) That's foreign underscore media underscore and so Gloria Steinem passed away on three September second while mainstream media lifted An airwave of tributes, another side of her legacy has been largely omitted. During the Cold War, Steinem directed the Independent Research Service, an organization, the CIA, secretly funded to counter Soviet influences amongst young people. She also criticized within the Black Liberation Movement for promoting an analysis of gender and that purposely seemed to ignore race and class. When former Black Panther Party Chairwoman Elaine Brown discussed the party's community food programs, particularly its Free Breakfast for Children program. An interviewer seemingly influenced by Steinem's brand of feminism repeatedly interrupted her to say who cooked? Or was it women who cooked the food? Brown got frustrated and hit back, seeing that the line of question Was bourgeois feminism, the type Steinem and Betty Friedan. And again, you know, like the feminist moustique, right? That's her book, this Betty. had pr promoted, which presented a false image of the Black Panther Party, was inherently chauvinistic. In her view, their class interest and distance from the Black revolutionary struggle led them to reduce the party's work to question of traditional gender roles while overlooking its anti-capitalist and anti-imperialistic politics. Women made up at least half of the Black Panther Party's membership. Brown explained that the responsibilities were assigned according to the ability not Marina Crane (59:33.374) gender. If you cooked, you could cook. If you handled a gun, you would be handling a gun. Steinem worked with the CIA funded independent research services is documented in the agency's own ac archives. Any criticism she directed at the Black Panther Party and other Black Liberation movements should therefore be viewed through the lens, especially because she was paid to counter Marxist influence and the Panthers were and explicitly Marxist left Leninist organization. Again, you know, I'm saying at what point, at what point is there this enabling or at what point is there this structure of what it is that you're trying to liberate? Like Gloria Steinem. I mean I I when I went to university and this feminist like all this free this these literatures that were coming out that was geared to to white vigility, white white women and and again to the structure of it. That's why for me I don't trust white women. I don't. I I continually say like, yeah, I I've had I have white friends or or Like I I try to to say, okay, yeah, I I I know it's it's a terrible thing, but the reality of it is like, come on. Like I said, get off the cross. I need the wood to make us sweat. I think the most uncom uncomfortable truth about women is that that that you really that it's rarely spoken about. That women are a thousand times more narcissistic than males. I don't think I think the entire human species is a narcissistic species. The whole species is narcissistic. But I believe that the most uncomfortable truth for the average Marina Crane (01:01:33.97) person is that women are actually narcissistic, more narcissistic than males. It's not that males are not narcissistic, it's that women are a thousand times more narcissistic. I've never heard a saying that, you just have to love your father no matter what he did because that's your only dad. You only get one. I never hear that. I always hear it about a woman. No matter what a mother did to her children, no matter what, that's your mama, you still need to love your mom no matter what she did. I hear women say, no matter what a woman does, a man should never put his hands on her. Marina Crane (01:02:13.984) And women believe they can do anything to you and expect that you accept it and still worship the ground they walk on. So if anything is going to improve the truth about the psychology of women has to be revealed, it's a dark place. It's not It's not peaches and cream because women think that they can abuse you, women think that they can talk to you any kind of way, they think they can put their hands on you, and then they expect you to still speak of them as angels. That's bad because that behavior trickles down to their children. So they end up their children. Women are very to their children and they don't even understand in what ways they're to their children. And you can't tell them anything because they do no wrong in their eyes. I try to tell women that even when it comes to their sons, most women set their sons up for failure and they don't even understand why they set their sons up for failure. And they don't understand this because they don't understand the nature of the male, the physiology, the neurologic the neurology of the male. They don't understand the male's existence. Most parents, especially specifically women, because it's mostly most single parents are women, you hear them say something like I just wanted to give my child the things I never had. Marina Crane (01:03:56.384) And if it's a woman saying that, and she has a son, this is bad because you're not thinking about the development of your child. You're trying to make up for your own childhood. through your child, giving them things that you never had, that you wanted. You're not giving them what they need. You're not tailoring the new environment or your behaviors or your parenting style around what your current child needs. You are thinking about yourself. Well if you're a woman and you have a son you are subconsciously thinking of your son as your daughter yourself. You're treating Him like a girl because you were a girl, and you start to give the children things that they don't need that ends up sabotaging the development of the child, and they are totally unaware of this. So I believe that more information, more knowledge, more education can help. With women seeing their own psyche. Relationships should be a mirror to the individual. Every person that you get with is going to reflect back to you who you are. You have to be attuned enough to know that, hmm, this stuff that I'm getting back, it is because I'm projecting something and I'm getting feedback. What is it that I'm doing? What is it about my thought process that's bringing this back to me? What is drawing? Drawing me to the types of relationships, what is it that is showing me? People don't use relationships as feedback as they should, but they give you information that you really need to not only help yourself but to help your offspring. And so for women, I believe, since they are the first teachers of the child, that there needs to be far more education. Marina Crane (01:06:04.372) in her duration about not only the nature of herself, but the nature of her sons, the male. Women are inadvertently doing things that harms the male's development and then they'll get out and say, that ain't my fault. He needs to man up. We need to stop the conversation about what men need to do. Do men have their faults? Absolutely. I've spoken on these faults. I've called out a lot of male behavior. I mean, I wrote a book called 41 Shades Men to Pursuit to Sedo and Use You. But what's the conversation on women? Because they are the first teachers of the child, you know? so I feel sorry for a lot of the children, especially the involuntary celibates. Because they are they are a danger and women don't understand. These are your sons. These are your sons. Women procreate indiscriminatively. They don't have a, they don't have, they don't value the things that are valuable. And a lot of times women are unable to recognize threats. So women are attracted to like the worst of the worst. They like criminals. They do like criminals. They like They like psychopaths. They like a lot of things and these traits end up getting passed down to their offspring. So what happens is you choose jacked up genetics, and now your son is socially awkward. But he's still a male. And he's still going to have so desires. And then you you you don't nurture him the correct way and you make him weak. Marina Crane (01:08:02.868) unable to fight the woes and the challenges in society. And then he gets out here and struggles with the most fundamental human need, especially the male need. You create a violent and a very dangerous person to come out into the world. What do you think the most uncontr uncon And that her name is like white soft white underbelly is what her her handle is and Princella's story it's women are a thousand times more narcissistic and let's see like I truly believe that because when Nathan Chasing Horse came here And just recently like when I had some closure and I came back and I had to I've l let go of a lot of female friends, like we're talking women sixty and older, the narcissistic Machiavellian, the reality, like just the the danger. See and the thing is like they put their daughters in danger as well because and and so like even the reality of the enabling of of the the mother Like because uncomfortable truth about women? I think I think for me this this particular this particular last video or this video that I'm playing is is so like I'm going to find out more information and more literature on on this particular author because like I've never had children. And and so a lot of times when I am around women who like again I truly believe what she's saying narc the I've I've I've had to let go of narcissistic Machiavellian women. Marina Crane (01:10:00.042) men and and at the same time too like the reality of how dangerous it's like when I talk about self-defeating eliminating self-defeating behavior and I talk about just the things that women like like just the death toll in in in what like again r the responsibility to raise men boys into men Like that like again, I I had an acquaintance, she only had she only had one child, a male. And and the thing is like this makes so to total sense because like if we o when we own our narcissistic traits and and if you have if you have a son and you're raising them, you think they're you're raising them as males, but actually like really the the I I just find it fascinating. I just find this really fascinating because because it is the truth. when people when women are drinking the Kool-Aid and they're obsessive compulsive over love and they're saying no I'm I'm I'm gonna love this man even though he's a cult leader and he's got all these girls he's he's sexually abusing. I'm still gonna follow him right until the bitter end because my goodness, I'm like I kid you not. I when I went to go s the sentencing and and I made it I made it sure that I was gonna tell anybody I was going. I didn't realize the cac the incapacity, the the lack of of what's the word? The lack of of self cr self like self criticism or what do they call it when when you're to to to do self critique, like to to have some structure Marina Crane (01:12:10.126) like I'm really grateful I the decisions I've made. But but again to as a woman and to understand like the the the women that I've had to to put boundaries down, like to actually put boundaries down because of their narcissistic Machiavellian behavior. And and until you actually see it in place and how damaging it is to their sons. Like that's the profound part of it. Is you know, like I like I said, my cousin, she she's got her forty year old sons, who she she you know, she she like until she got her job that she was the main breadwinner. and she's six she's sixty five. And she was coaching me to kill myself. Nun and then a seventy one year old whose whose granddaughter I tried to help out, she's got she's got sons. And again, single bred winner, seventy one years old, helping them. And they're in you know, hitting fifty. And and and she's enabling them by paying their bills and housing them and working, you know, until she's exhausted. Again because she's Machiavellian. I remember seeing her for the first time at fifteen and she was dancing like she was this radiant princess. And the fact that she held on to that that image of herself right now until she's seventy one. I haven't called her or texted her to see if she even made it home with her granddaughter. 'Cause that's in her her ball court. That that is her family. That is how she raised them. My she she married my mum's first cousin, my uncle. And he he didn't raise his sons. And and I could see why he he didn't form a relationship with her. Because again, Machiavellian, narcissistic Machiavellian. And don't get me wrong, these women are scrupulous when it comes to business, especially with indigenous communities. Because they will do everything to succeed. Marina Crane (01:14:14.37) But the reality of it is the lack of trust towards men triples or is double compounded ten times towards white men. So again, there there is there's there is a distinction, and that's why for me when I say I've been around white people my whole life, I've you know, just the reality of how much I've engaged with all types of men i is totally different. So when I talk about healthy human sexuality in this podcast that I've just done and this this last part of it and just the reality anything to just the reality of of just what's out there. And and and like I said, it it's it's important. It's important to embrace it and understand what is it that we we Have done. That's why when you're looking at child development and you're looking at when they when somebody becomes sexually aware and their bodies are starting to develop and they understand consent, that that consistency of a behavior needs to be to be there, it needs to be present because the world is full of so many inconsistencies. The world is there, you know, to to promote self-defeating behavior, and you see it. In all types of addiction that makes money off of that in itself, where if the you you just don't make money out of consistent things. Like science. That's just my opinion. But anyway, here I'm gonna see what this last one's all about here. Let's see if I can get this. Don't get it twisted. Inclusion does not mean you belong. You can be at the table. You can be welcomed, you can be successful. You can have a name, place card, all that, and still not belong. But when I opened my mouth to say what I actually saw, the room went polite and a little cold. And the conversation moved around me like water around a rock. I was included. Marina Crane (01:16:26.434) But I didn't belong. When you really belong, your idea gets used and you get the credit. You walk in without the weight of worry and without rehearsing your smile. Because my dear brother, my dear sister, you were not made to be tolerated. You were made to be known and to belong. Find the table where you can be all of you. Or join me and we'll talk about building a table of your own. Because in November and December, I'm gonna host a new program. Come on in this room. Sacred space for safe conversation. It's gonna be live and it's gonna be free twice a month. Don't get it twisted. Her name is Xina Jock. Z-I-N-A-J-A-C-Q-U E. And she says, Don't get it twisted. Inclusion does not mean you belong. You can be at the table, welcome, successful, with your name on the place cart. It's still not belong. When you open your mouth and say what you actually saw, the room went polite and a little cold. And the conversation moved around me like the water around a rock and I was included, but I w I didn't belong. And I find that the same for myself when I go into the city or even within my community and I'm talking and And and again, like even though I'm saying it, all of a sudden, you know, like the conversation moves around me like water around a rock, like as she put it, the metaphor. And then she goes on to say, we were not made to be tolerated, beloved, we were made to be known and to belong. So so when she says these things, that's why I'm saying when you say land back, that's like the the the homeland, where you belong, where you where you you know and you feel like you belong. And and I I think in terms of systemic racism, when when you have white supremacists who are constantly saying you don't belong. Marina Crane (01:18:38.092) You don't do this, you don't do that. and and and yet you're going, but this is my homeland. This is where my people have lived for like I think they said 120, some like the debate on how long indigenous people have been in the Americas and yet and yet we're struggling. We're struggling to say this is our homeland and land back so that we can feel like human beings. I mean, only in Africa. Can can a black person go back to their homeland and feel like a human being? And how long has the world wanted to change that narrative? To make Africa look as big as Greenland? How long has it been? And yet the science of humanity in the sense of what it means to be a human being? I really am grateful that there are intellectuals out there, especially men. And again, by the time a man has has raised a family and has had their own company and we'll call them the alpha male, and by the time they they get older then th there's like, okay, like my goodness, there there are strong women out there. Again too, but you have to look at it. Are they narcissistic Machiavellian women? Like I really like I like I'm not saying I I know the answers. I'm just saying for for me to try and explain to you what it's like to live in an indigenous community. I met Cherokee i indigenous man who'd gone and he's an actual Cherokee. He like I tell you, genealogy documentation, it's like it's like the Metis or half breed in Canada. You have to have that documentation that you know and you can see that your family was in Indian residential school, all that paperwork. Like like we said, you know, the the Indian agent, all those documentation. In the United States, the Cherokee and Native Americans have documented Marina Crane (01:20:46.264) such records and it's really difficult for Americans to claim Cherokee bloodline. But it took a hell of a long time to do this. It's the same thing that's happening right now with the Metis in Canada. It's gonna take a hell of a long time for people who are claiming to be Cherokee like our Premier Daniel Smith. Like, hello, you cannot just put it out you know turn it on like a light switch. But what I'm trying to say is this man was Cherokee. And you know, he used to say he used to say, I carry this card. He says, I don't get money from I don't like he was consolidating ten of his cards, ten of his companies into all of his companies into ten companies. And so he's, you know, he doesn't need money from his indigenous community. But but he he says he says, I I I'm I'm Native American and this is how I prove it with my card. But but he says, I don't know what it's like to live on a reservation. So in other words, he doesn't know what it's like to live in First Nations, in Uit or Metis communities. And and so again, like it's important, it's important for people to understand these concepts. A lot of times a lot of times when when we're trying to talk about what it's like to to be an Indigenous woman. It it unless you've actually lived it, unless you actually have grown into it, unless you've actually challenged other women who are narc narcissistic Machiavellian. And and again, being even around dangerous women. Like I like I said, I I I I have cousins who've gone to prison. I have a brother who went to prison. but but to actually be around really dangerous women, it's only this past week allowing this 38-year-old to spend the night at my home, like I like it's it the reality of like just how dangerous women are and and the fact that like that her mother her grandmother enabled her again this narcissistic tendency like to enable Marina Crane (01:23:00.64) And and yet for me to talk to these women, like my cousin, the 71 year old, I even have a childhood friend who's 77, again enabling their adult male children, indigenous, talk about narcissistic Machiavellian indigenous women. And I'm saying to them, retire, enjoy your life. And then what do I get the cousin saying to kill myself? The woman who's just like doesn't wanna answer me, like, yeah, my granddaughter's got a criminal record. Like how how like it even the fact too that You know, I have one lady who's been saying, I miss Marina. She did this and this and this and I miss her and I'm going I say to the lady who she's talking to, she doesn't miss me. She doesn't miss me at all because she's a narcissistic Machiavellian. She would sacrifice me put me on the stake to burn if it meant her losing her job. She w she like, really? the the the danger and the reality of like at what point at what point str strategic critical thinking skills come into play. Like I try and tell people I am who I am because I've had to work. I've had to s like you know I I tell people I remember biking up this hill, going to work five in the morning crying. Because I didn't have a partner, I didn't have children, I had to pay my bills. living in another country, you know, just just the dynamics of tr struggling as a female, a minority. Yes, I have I've paid my dues and I continue paying my dues and I'm using my podcast to get it out there. Marina Crane (01:24:47.008) You might when you look at indigenous women and you look at their lives, understand the nature of it. It's just not indigenous women, it's all women, like this woman said. Because I had a white friend who has a 30-year-old son who is narc she's narcissistic and what she's taught her son. And this whole fallacy of like, okay, relapse and recovery and love, all based on white fragility. That's why I said, you know, I I've I've gone through it, this whole psychology, this whole you know, like be a good be a good white person because you know you're gonna help people. And I'm going, I can challenge you and say, you know, if it offends you and you ghost me, go ahead. Do it. My whole life I've been around white people, especially white women. And if they don't like what I say because they think it's too harsh, that's okay. Because whatever I'm saying, I'm hoping is going to have some lesson for indigenous youth, for youth in general, and for hopefully for people to understand healthy human sexuality. Because it's not something easily obtainable. I'm seventy four, I'm gonna be seventy five in January and and the likelihood of of just getting the information across into what it is that we need to do to help each other as human beings. I don't have Like I said, I don't have any legacy in the sense of children or grandchildren. What I have is my community and my family, my nieces and nephews, and and the boundaries that I've put in place for myself, for my own sanity. Understand this. Marina Crane (01:26:34.326) You know, I I had to let go of friendships, childhood friendships that I that I reacquainted after decades. And and also making relatives. Part of my culture is to be a good relative. And for me to put boundaries down and saying, No, I will not tolerate Machiavellian narcissistic behavior towards me. I will not do that. And and that's the closure that I got from Nathan Chasinghorse. That's the lesson I got from reporting and warning people about Nathan Chasing horse. It's because I had to get through to these women. These women who who, you know, just like they're they're in love with him. This narcissistic Machiavellian way of thinking. It's like it's like trying to chip away at at something that's frozen to thaw it out. And the fact that it thawed out and you know, he's serving life in prison. Of course he's gonna go for an appeal. Of course all this is gonna happen. But the thing the reality that why don't tell you is like there is there are so many outstanding warrants and criminal activity that there's no point, you know, it's fruitless. He can do whatever the hell he wants to do, because even if he gets off He appeals in Nevada. He still has co c cases in Montana than Canada. You know, so do and say what you want. But, you know, it people say, well, why did it take so long? Why did it take so long? And you can say the same thing too. Why did it take so long for people to even look at the thousands of children, indigenous kids who've been who've been killed? Marina Crane (01:28:23.48) Why did it take so long? Five hundred years. That's just a drop in the bucket in terms of humanity. But that's the point of it, isn't it? In s in civilizations that have gone back thousands of years, and look at look at what our our civilization has done to the Americas. And the result of it in terms of the things that we've had to uncover. Not historically like digging up in anthropology or archaeology, but in terms of human psychology, in terms of human development, and her in terms of artificial intelligence, everything scientific. These things are important for us to to deliber to deliberate and understand. I'm just so grateful that there are so many academics, both indigenous and black and multicultural, that I can I can take information and like a big puzzle and put them together for this podcast. So so with that I I'd leave you for the day and I'm just totally grateful for the ability to just put things at rest. For you t as my audience to understand the degree and the complexities of what I live through every day. And the thing is like I the anchor that I have is the anchor that when I was a child, I lived off the land. There was no TV, no iPads, no phones, nothing. I enjoyed and breathed the air and the stars and and and ate ate, you know, I actually had to kill animals to eat, like to survive. And Marina Crane (01:30:07.286) I think in in the sense that in its sense in the media and the amount of information I'm getting now as a senior ha g has given me a foundation. And I just wish, I just wish in terms of human development our children, our babies get some sort of foundation so that when they get older that they don't get overwhelmed with this artificial intelligence. So with that, I'll leave you for the day and I'm just grateful. Totally grateful. Thank you. I I I you know, creator and the grandfathers and grandmothers. And again, when when you hear or the romanticized Native Americans and grandfathers and grandmothers, okay, grandfather sky and grandmother or grandfather sun and grandmother moon. You you you can romanticize all of that and say what it is, but for me in my community growing up with people that I've known for childhood from childhood. Yesterday was profound and having all these people Like we met, and and for me to empower them by saying we all contributed to what's happening today in our community. And I'm saying that in a very I'm saying it without understand with the com compat capacity to understand we've eliminated self-defeating behavior. Because we've we've had to help each other grow in celebrate and also grieve. I'm just grateful too that that I've come to this point in my life of having closure. You know, it it it wasn't it's it's never been easy to to fall in love and to fall out of love. And but in order to do that you have to trust. You as a human being have to trust the trust the journey. Marina Crane (01:32:06.656) And it doesn't mean that falling out of love is a mental illness. And doesn't mean that when you fall in love, that is it's a mental illness either. So falling in and out of love is a normal human condition. And that's how I started off the podcast to say that love is the most addictive addictive addictive thing as a human as human beings. And and we just have to we just have to understand that. So I think the last the last what person that that I think she was that's Zen Jock I said. Yeah, Z I N A J A C Q U E. So for all those who contributed in in the sub bibliography, I hope I hope you find them and if if you want to know some of the I guess Some of these authors just email me and I'll send you some of the like what the the topics they were talking about. Okay, I shall let you go. But yeah, life is worth living. And it's worth, and love is worth living too. So love each other. Love means getting to know each other. Means to get to know each other.