in my opinion Fawning is historical trauma unresolved

Okay, so I'm not going to mention your name. I'm just going to say what today is. What may the... What's the date today? (00:09.922) 19th? 19th? Well, it's a Wednesday the 20th. We're a day behind. Okay. Okay. So what I was saying is like, haven't the chief and council, like my tribe, my domain, my dominion, my everything, they've never helped me with rent, nothing. You know, when I lived in the United States, I worked full time and I went to school full time. paid rent. I had to make sure that if I had a whole bunch of roommates, so the cost to rent was so that I could live and pay my tuition. And then 20 years ago when Nathan Chasinghors comes into the community and he takes these child brides, and at the time he wasn't passing them off as child brides. You know, like claiming he was a youth worker and that he was helping these young women and they were going to be like supermodels. You know, like his like I think his one of his children, one of his many children is a supermodel. So back in the days, that's what he promised. And and the thing is, one of the girls and I won't say their names, one of the girls, she ended up with Steven Seagal and and just like Jeffrey Epstein, you know, she was He had these women in his home, like doing massages and shit like that. And how I know that is when I went down to Las Vegas and I met some of the survivors who also know these young girls from Soutena. Like that's, you know, I know. And so like, I think just the fact that he was trafficking, like I think one of the ladies just had it. because she was the one who had been introduced to Steven Seagal. think she just had it. And she moved back and then she was instrumental too because it was one thing that Nikki, one of the girls from Sioux, Tennessee, she was 14 when she met Nathan and then the following week when he started picking her up at the school, she turned 15 and he videotaped her. When he took her to a motel, he videotaped her. (02:35.95) And the police had all the records, like the text messages he sent her. Like very provocative text messages. And so Nikki had, and again, out of all the victims, Nikki is the only one who at the very beginning tried to charge him. it did, like she, I think for about five years, she collected all the information. And so by the time the other girl who he had taken, see, he didn't take Nikki. She wasn't part of this group of young women that... She was just a student because he was going to school out here talking. And so he had a different audience as well. Any place he put his creepy little hands, like that's where he would... find his victims. yeah, when he took these young women, various leadership made sure that their rent were paid for. if management disagreed, they would be threatened with their jobs. Like there were a couple of band counselors that went into housing and said, you have to pay their rent or you're going to lose your job. And this went on for years. Like I said, by 2015, when the one young woman came back because she wasn't, obviously she was, the whole dream about being a supermodel was just like a hoax. She came back and then I think the story she brought along with what Nikki had presented five years prior was instrumental in getting him banished. And so our chief, our chief today, Back then he was working with corrections. And so the chief and council were in the process of banishing him. But understand this, this really divided a lot of people because the leadership, even, know, like the head leadership was still paying for the rent and for these people because their last names were one spot. Okay, so. (05:02.518) It was really like, almost like the likes it polarized the community. And for whatever reason, bless the, the chief and council at that time, they were able to BCR do a band council resolution to get Nathan banished. And they did, but that's because of the two victims that came forward, Nikki and the other lady who had left and, know, had been jilted and coerced into like being trafficked, allegedly trafficked. Like I said, the survivors said, you know, she was treated like how Epstein treated those women in his compound. Well, this was with Steven Seagal. But then everybody was just like so proud that she was with this actor, like he was going to take her places. And that's the guys that Nathan Chasing Horse used. Like he had connections. Like even when he left, there were photos of him in Hawaii. You know, he'd... ask, he'd have his children, the children who he had still connection with, their mothers, fly his kids to meet him. And then once they found out what kind of person he was, because they were reading my blog, they made sure that anytime their children were with him, that there was an adult where they were accompanied with, they accompanied their child with him, with them, to visit him. So everything was really guarded and even like one of the survivors, says to me, Marina, she said, for decades, we were drinking the Kool-Aid. Everything he told us about you was a lie. And I said, well, I sensed he was sabotaging me, the lateral violence. I got a lady from Oregon telling me she was going to hack my computer because Nathan wanted her to hack my computer over my blog. And so the effort to stop me from publishing anything online had been going on for decades. when I went down on November 11th, not November, March 11th, and I met the ladies from California and Montana, like they were Arizona and New Mexico, and they were grateful. They shook my hand, gave me a hug, and elder, thank you for putting this blog out because we read it. (07:27.374) And so they used my blog as a reference to other people warning about Nathan. And that's the reason I did my blog was to try and get my niece to read my blog because she was so infatuated, so in love, so manipulated by men and family members to think that she was going to eventually end up being Nathan Chasing Horse's wife. For five years, she believed it. And then when she realized it was a guy's sheet, tried reporting it to the police. Now every effort to track down what happened or if it went anywhere was lost. Like she died about four years ago. So every effort she had, any documentation was lost. Cause I know when her mother was dying from cancer, she was telling me that my niece had reported him. And so I knew there was Talk about it. But it was so hard. It was so hard because she was already, she was a high risk teenager and she went into a high risk young woman. And it was horrible. was, she was, like when I say she was a danger, but she tried to, she tried to, like we're talking, you know, really bad stuff and attacks with a machete trying to kill. almost killing my brother, attacking her mother with a golf club, like just angry, just anger at adults. I, like, again, she fell through the cracks. She was being trafficked out of a halfway house in Calgary. And then when my brother was sentenced, she was also in the newspaper in one of Calgary's largest drug busts. This is this is a child, this is a child that was. supposed to be protected under child and family. You know, like to me, to me, like really, when I tell people we do not have sovereignty in our communities because we don't have all the money we make, we should be able to afford a group home for children, different age groups or group shelters for children. Instead we have a shelter for men and a shelter for women. What about the children? (09:49.314) You know, when a woman dies and her children have no, like their dad maybe have some problems, can't look after them or hurries out of the picture, those children immediately end up in foster homes in the city. If there's nobody in the community as extended family to take them, they go into the city. And like I said, the average age to be trafficked is 14. So the reality of exactly, you know, what's out there for the kids. Again, I go back to the Chief and Council here and this is like 20 years. Like how blind are they? Like really, you know, whatever is happening right now with the Chief and Council, with the survivors of Nathan Chasing Horse and however they pay them, like even to go to the courthouse in Las Vegas, anything, like they paid for them to come back. One of the women who was following Nathan, They paid for her entire family to move back from Las Vegas. Like they paid for people who were living in Las Vegas, who were nation members, thousands, like almost $200,000 in rent. Okay. So when they banished him and they're totally trying to wean them off this codependency of, you know, having their rent. See for me, you know, like I said, I've a couple of decades. lived away from my community. Not once did Chief and Council ever pay for my rent. Now, I don't know for what reason, were they afraid that these victims of Nathan Chasing Horse were going to sue them because when he took them, they were children? Again, I think if we were sovereign, yes, I think the Chief and Council would have been sued by the family members who go, why are you paying rent for these children? You're there to protect our children. I don't know for what reason, like for me, I think if the nation were sovereign at the time and right now these girls are like in their early 30s, I'd say sue the chief and council. Don't blame the parents. Parents gave their daughters up to this man. no, chief and council paid for their rent, paid for everything. (12:15.862) It's like even on the fifth estate, one of the ladies who married into suit in a, she wasn't raised here. She was married in divorced her band counselor husband. They paid for her rent and her daughter's rent in Las Vegas. So you can understand how enraged I am that I've lived in suit and I'm like, I'm a suit and a nation member didn't marry in nothing. that when I ask for help, I don't get nothing. Why? Because I don't have children to vote the chief and council in, or I don't have any prominent person. Like I said, various leadership had gone to housing and threatened managers with their jobs if they didn't pay the rent. (13:04.75) And when Nathan Chasing Horse was arrested, they paid for like an entire family to be moved back from Las Vegas. Would they have done that for me? No. Would they do that for me today? No. Do you see what I'm saying? You're talking about nepotism and lateral violence. Well, yes, lateral violence. And when I talk about, when I tell people gender apartheid, it goes over their heads. What? Gender apartheid? I'm going look, look at my life. You know, I ran away when I was 18. I was 17. I turned 18 in Vancouver and I was sexually assaulted when I was 19 in my community, not in Vancouver, in my community. And the men who sexually assaulted me were serial rapists. Okay, so understand this. When I was 19, from what the RCMP told me, I was like the like I was like the 14th victim and I was the youngest. So where the hell were all these older women who had been sexually assaulted by these men? And these men were related to leadership. Okay, leadership who enabled Nathan Chasinghorse to stay in our community. Okay. You know, like one of the serial rapists died when he was 27. And the other one, like 30, I'll say 31 years ago, he started serving time for what he did to me. And when I talk to people about it, like they go, Marina, you're emotionally scarred or traumatized. I'm going, look, I said, no. I said, I was compliant. I told them, don't hurt me. I'll do whatever you want. Cause I thought they'd kill me. Even though I had people, my own age group with me, when they took, when those men, when that man grabbed me and pulled me upstairs kicking. (15:07.316) Since my peers didn't even come to run and grab me, when I was up there by myself, I knew that they could hurt me really bad. And so I said, don't hurt me, I'll do whatever you want me to do. And then afterwards, when the sexual assault was done, they dropped everybody off, including one of the predators. And so when we went back to the house, the guy, he's alive now, he's an elder, really, he's been shunned from the community. So he's, lives here, but he, you know, he's, he's paying the consequence like it's karma or the circle of life or the natural law, call it what you want. But, you know, he said to me, get upstairs. I was in the car. He says, get upstairs. And I said, if you thought you, if you thought I enjoyed what I did, you've got to be kidding. Cause I was, I complied because. They could have killed me. he punched me. were a victim. He punched me. The first punch I was knocked out. And that's what I explained to people. I said, I have about 20 scars in my head because that first punch I was knocked out. didn't feel anything. He was so enraged. This man was so enraged. Understand this. My father took this man as a nephew because his auntie raised him. So he was like extended family, adopted extended family. And the fact that I didn't want him, the fact that his own mother and extended family in Sutanid didn't want him. And because here we were an adopted family of his who was rejecting him, he was so enraged, he kept on hitting me while I was unconscious. When I woke up, I was in a pool of blood. And I heard his wife. and his sister-in-law looking at me in the car, look, supposedly unconscious. And they said, look at what they did to that poor girl. And I heard them go in the house. Then I heard them coming out screaming because apparently they had confronted him because I was in their car, the unconscious in one of the women's cars. The other sister, they got into the car and they took off. (17:27.924) I didn't realize he took a baseball bat to them. It wasn't until, I think, a couple of years after I went to court and he was charged as he was charged and guilty and sentenced that a friend of mine who I'd known for 30 years, she says, Marina, that morning, this is before I knew her. says that morning, his wife, his sister, his his sister-in-law dropped off his wife at my place and I kept her for two weeks. She's the one who explained to me that he took a baseball bat to the two women. See, they were like, like they were there. They were going to rescue me. I know that. So I never really thought of lateral violence. I never thought they were malicious enough to be laterally violent to me. But, but for 20 years, the family, the community, they ostracized me. And, and like when I talk about lateral violence, I'm talking about people who aren't even asking questions. Cause I, tell people my story in my community. didn't realize I was just feeding the lateral violence. It wasn't until I met a white woman who was working with mental health, like she'd come out to visit people with like they were bipolar, schizophrenic. And she says, this person, did you ever tell him he hurt you? And I said, yeah. I said, I told him if he thought what I did to him, I enjoyed it. She says, Did you say to him, you hurt me? I said, and I thought, no, I didn't. So that's why I thought, okay, I've got to make a report. I've got to face him in court and I've got to tell him he hurt me. So I did that. It took six years. And I went through three RCMP investigators. I had to finally go to the head supervisor on 16th Avenue, Northeast to make a complaint about the investigation. And within six months they had issued a warrant, but he was living in BC. And as soon as he came into Alberta, they arrested him. And that's like after 20 years. Okay, now understand this, during the six years of the investigation, that's when the RCMP reported to the judge that I wasn't his first victim and that they approached these women, either they'd been married in or raised here, if they would come forward and also charge him. And each one of them, over 10 of them, refused. (19:55.926) Now, the only reason I could say why they were like fawning, know, fawning where they don't want to make cause any ripples or have any conflict directed to them is either because of their jobs or they were related to to the perpetrators. So, so, yeah, the the two girls that Nathan chasing horse took were the granddaughters of the serial rapist. How's that for paradox or irony? Which to me, you know, like, dude, like just the lateral violence and the, like, like the reason I'm saying that is, like as, indigenous women, need to tell, tell our stories. We need to validate and support the victims because if we don't physically do it, then we're not protecting our own children. And so because, because those women who were laterally violent towards me, projecting all that hate they had towards their husbands. Understand this, those men were violent to their wives. Violent. I could understand why they were so scared. And I can understand why a lot of battered women will refuse to testify against their husbands. now get this, when I lodged the complaint, the RCMP also questioned the two men. There were two men and two women, like boys, two boys and one girl. The girl had died, but they questioned the two young men who were now men and had children. They had questioned them about, because they were in the house when I was sexually assaulted. And of course they're going to deny it. But the one tried to run me off the road during the investigation. And I had to report them. So I went to court in Okotoks. He had, lost his license for a whole year. But at the time that I was in the courthouse in the courtroom, there was the, woman before me, she had reported her husband who was a police officer. She reported him for spousal abuse. And so when she got up there, the judge, the lawyer, and like everybody said, she's not, she's not a friendly witness. She's refuses to testify against her police husband. (22:24.14) So they have to dismiss that or just leave it on record that her police husband had been reported to have been assaulting his wife. So the history of spousal abuse and the lateral violence isn't just with Indigenous people, but it is important for women or victims of any kind of violence to report it. Now, that being said too, I have a friend, when she was a child, Like she says, my mom didn't really look after me. And this is a white woman. She said, did, I hitchhiked, I cut myself into things that I shouldn't have gotten into. She said, I have a vague memory of being in this truck. He took me down into this valley. She says, I don't remember what happened there. She said, I just remembered I was leaving the valley. And so now as a 66 year old woman, she says, I don't need to deal with that. Because like again, this is my whole premise is when you're older, it's really difficult for like disclosure and narrative and healing in order to deal with triggers needs to be done when you're younger. Like my friend needed to do this when she was in her 20s or 30s, not when she's 66. And she says, I, she says, I know that that's why I'm not dealing with it. She says, you know, she can be a therapist, but not deal with sexual abuse cases. And I said, yes. I said, because they don't teach certain things in university, in social work or in therapies. I said, they don't. And so if you fail the course and you're out there as like an unhealthy therapist, you know, like, excuse me, I think. Indigenous people have gone through so many unhealthy therapists coming out like being like what privileged or what they call it that you know when you have that God complex Where you think you can heal everybody? (24:35.33) But you also have to remember, there's a number of people that go into psychology or go into social work because they have problems themselves. They've been victims. Maybe they don't have to be Indigenous. They could be non-Indigenous. Yes, of course. That's why I'm telling you the story. Like I'm saying... That's exactly right. I'm saying like, look at the former chief. You know, this guy, when he was in high school denied he was indigenous. You know, when these white kids would ask him if he was indigenous, says, no, I'm Mexican. And this is coming from suit and the people who actually heard him say that to these white kids in high school. Then he, then he becomes a milkman. He marries a white woman. have, know, and again, there he is, you know, messing around with indigenous girls in suit in a, but we're not good enough to be married to him. you know, because he's so ashamed to be indigenous. And then because he's Catholic, okay, because again, all this is coming from Catholicism. You know, and he's passing himself off as being this healthy person, just like a healthy therapist or a healthy social worker. Here's a healthy politician. My goodness, the amount of therapists, the amount of people that he tried to get to come into the community who were frauds. He had this lady with a PhD. Progillant PhD. I had to report her to the psychology association It took three years for the Calgary City police to raid her office in Calgary She took off like a bat out of hell back in the United States Now that's how vulnerable that's how much if you don't deal with your shit as a leader as a therapist or anybody a youth worker It's you know natural law catches up like look just like like now How much money has this former chief spent on medicine men, on therapists, for what? To hide his perversion? When this forensic psychologist who I'd known for 30 years, was this leader's therapist, I called him into my home because I needed to make sure (27:01.432) that when the police came, the tribal police came after Nathan Chasinghorse was arrested, I wanted him to validate that I had asked him to interview my niece. I needed proof because she wasn't under child and family. I wasn't under child and family with Sutan at any time. That I wanted somebody to validate that, yes, I tried to get help from my niece, that she was high risk, she was a danger to herself and others. So I invited... And this the forensic psychologist had interviewed my niece. And so I had him, I had him here when the tribal police came so that they could, you know, valid so that he could validate. Yes, Marina has been trying to help her niece. That's why I wrote the blog, because I knew she was on social media. I thought if she's on social media and she looks up Nathan chasing horse because she's obsessed with him, she hopefully will find my blog and she'll. realize like what I'm trying to say about him. So that was the impetus or the catalyst to start my blog was to reach out to my niece. And that's what I explained to the tribal police. The meantime, this forensic psychologist, he discloses that he was the therapist to the former chief, the former chief who's been now has now been charged with two historical sexual assault cases against men. Here's this forensic psychologist telling the tribal police that this former client of his had a propensity for boys. Okay, and he never told me this. He disclosed this in front of the tribal police. And I'm just there going, what? Because for years he was saying, he's the reason why Nathan Chasing Horse is thriving in Sudina. I couldn't understand it. I didn't understand until he disclosed to the tribal police of this leadership's propensity for boys. So whatever reason he was attracted to Nathan Chasing Horse and for whatever reason he supported Nathan Chasing Horse and Nathan's followers, understand this. This is two decades of Nation members collecting tithing every month to send to Nathan. (29:27.136) Some people even gave him $10,000 just to pray over the ring road. Some people, you know, like some people bought him a whole entire camping set for his Sundance. Thousands, thousands of dollars came out of Soutena from nation members to this man, all because leadership was supporting him. One of the ladies like I said one of the ladies who wasn't even married here when she was interviewed by the fifth the state She says I spent over two hundred thousand dollars on him. I bought him a new vehicle saying that he bought Nathan chasing horse a new vehicle You know half of that money that she spent had to have been on rent that the chief and council had been paying for in Las Vegas for Nathan to live in like the amount of Like this man, this Nathan Chasinghors had his wives establish companies in the States, in Las Vegas, for hundreds of thousands of dollars as startup costs for their companies. I don't know if there was five or six false companies. So you can imagine like the amount of other tribes like Sutena that he scavenged money from, from people that he knew he could manipulate funds from. Like how strong is our leadership when they couldn't even stand up and say no to him, but yet they can stand up and say no to me. Somebody who's grown up here, somebody who's been warning them about this man because he is a man and what am I? I'm just an indigenous woman. What? yeah, she's got a lot of anger and shit like that. I'm going, what? You know, they project all that hatred towards indigenous women. to indigenous elder women, to grandmothers, to aunties, to moms, to sisters, because of, for some other, for some reason, which to me is laterally violent in its gender apartheid. This is what the Indian agents set up. This is what has been going on for 500 years and to deconstruct it in modern times and saying, you think it's modern times, but we're still living under a colonial system. (31:53.74) where women are not understood or even the fact that when we become elderly, if we haven't dealt with our shit, then how good are we to even advocate for the protection of our children or even the protection of our own sisters, mothers, aunts and grandmothers? You know, that's the stark reality of Indigenous politics in our communities. I have friends who have... homes where their adult children are living with them. I have friends who are grandmothers who are raising their grandchildren. Yes. And where are the men? (32:35.982) Where are the brothers? are the ex-husbands? Where are these men? I know when my cousin says, it's slim pickings, I'm going, yes, but you're shutting yourself off to all men. And that's not right. I said, that's not fair to you. I said, because you're a sexual human being. Lateral violence. by community standards should not restrict women's sexual health. (33:16.418) Well... (33:20.034) know what to say but this has been going on for generations and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. (33:32.44) But the reality of it is to talk about it. know what it actually is? That's the starting because what have our women done in the past? They've been shamed into silence. But it's not just women. This is what I want to get across to Indigenous men too. The Indian Agent, Indian Residential School, They groomed our people, children, to be what they call infantilized. To fawn, to fawn and make sure, you know, the more you fawn is like, I don't want to say anything because I don't want to get people in trouble. I don't want to be in trouble because they know if as a child, if they got in trouble, they get punished. Either they'd be deprived of eating or sleeping or, you know, or they'd run away. Like I say, my father ran away. They caught him. as punishment, they put him in a cold attic with the dead bodies of children in Edmonton. You know, like just the horror stories of, you know, people, girls and, you know, just boys like the like I can't even comprehend how scared my parents would have been or even my grandparents to have some white person threaten them with their lives if they spoke their language. I spoke to a Nigerian community a few days ago, and they all spoke their language. They all spoke their language. Immigrants in Nigeria. And I said, you know, here I am speaking English. And they're listening and I'm telling them about the history of colonialism, the history of oil and gas and the greed for land and possession and how to... try and kill the indigenous soul, the spirit of our children. I said the largest amount of residential schools in Alberta. I said the grooming, just trying to make sure our children were ashamed to be indigenous. I said, you know, growing up and going to school at Fairview School and having these kids wagon burners squaw, I had to fight them. You know, I mean, mind you, you know, they're kids. So I think some of them are just (35:57.934) probably infatuated with, know, wanted to have some physical contact like little boys. But the reality of it is they, by the time I was in high school, they just shunned me. know, boys that I was friends with in elementary school, all of a sudden, you know, I'm untouchable. So, you know, growing up like that, as well as being around white girls who, you know, I had a white friend right from elementary school. right up until a few, maybe 20 years ago. And I went to a meeting in Calgary with Arts Development and this woman was there. She said she was Métis and she was using some Dakota name, Eagle something woman in Dakota. I'm Dakota. spoke, you know, my mom spoke fluent Dakota, my grandmother, my aunts, my cousins. So I'm saying to her, where did she get the name? Okay, she's passing herself off with the Calgary City Police, with the Calgary School Board. I can't even remember her name now. And so I contacted my friend because she's this woman, the so-called Métis woman, mixed blood woman, because obviously she's not Métis, but she was passing herself off as one. She said she knew my childhood friend from elementary school, my friend from elementary school, junior high, high school and university. That's how long I knew this white girl who's a white woman now. And so I contacted her and I said, I met this lady, this Metis woman. She says, she knows you. She yes, yes. She lived in Ontario. Her father was white, divorced her indigenous mom, took the child into BC, into the United States and raised her there. Now she's come to Alberta and she's reconnecting with her indigenous side. I'm going, really? See, the thing is that what my high school, my childhood friend doesn't realize, like there's a lady who does a really good podcast. Her father's white. She is an advocate. She says, my father's white. My mother's in Inuit. She says, I know my father is a racist. He'll be a racist until the day he dies. (38:25.058) He says, I know how he treated my Inuit mother. I said, yes, when you come from matriarchy and you marry a white man, you're cut off from that. You're cut off from that community of women. said, and she says, yes, my mother had to suffer through anxiety, depression, no community. I mean, even my aunt who lived in Calgary, my mom used to say, join the Métis community, other indigenous women who live in the city. because again, she was raised matriarch. So anyway, I'm talking to my friend and my former acquaintance, and I said to her, yeah, your friend is saying she, you I saw her at Arts Development. And so the next time I went to the meeting, her so-called friend confronts me. Marina, heard you were talking to so-and-so about me. And I said, yes, I have every right to. She says, no, you don't. I said, yes, I do. (39:25.864) Especially when you're claiming to be, you you have you got a Sioux name. I'm Sioux. Because I told my friend, I know these people in the Dakotas where this name comes from. I said that woman has stolen a name, a very famous name of a very famous Dakota woman, and she's passing herself off in the city of Calgary with this name. I said I could I could make trouble for her by contacting the family of origin. I said, this woman thinks this woman can say she's indigenous and doesn't understand matriarchal law. And that was like one of the last times I was ever invited back to the, again, that took a couple of years and then they started inviting me back because I don't know where this woman disappeared to. I contacted tribal police and they said, oh yeah, we're familiar with her. I said, she's not indigenous. She's not indigenous and she's not Métis. I said, and even the story of her living in the States, no connection with indigenous people. She's not even owning that her father is racist. At least you have people in Calgary who have mixed blood, whose mother is indigenous, that are telling the truth about their racist dad. I said, that's the reality. said, I have uncles that are white. My cousins, again, the Sioux have been mixing for decades. My great grandmother had blue eyes. spoke fluent Dakota. So when I talk about mixing, I'm talking about the reality of racism. I was talking with my cousin, we were talking about our cousins. They said, know, their father's white in those ranch, those farmers in the plains in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Some of these white families didn't like the fact that their son had married a savage, and all their kids would have their own house. (41:31.682) They would be segregated from within their white families. That's how racist they were. So indigenous people who have mixed blood relatives, we know, we talk about it. Look, I have first cousins who have never stepped in my home, never. (41:55.522) Really. But what's so hard to believe? When you talk about lateral violence and the, like I said, we can talk about it and we have to talk about it because, you know, shame has a lot to do with it. Even like whatever emotion. The only thing for me is that's a red flag is when people try to guilt trip you or when people say you're trying to make you feel guilty. Anything like that has nothing to do with healing. Guilt has nothing to do with healing. Shame, frustration, know, just loneliness, any other emotion. You have to face it. You deal with it. You have a support system. You come in place and you heal from it. That's why, like when I talk to people about, like when people were, even when I came back from Las Vegas and how I was shunned. Marina, why'd you go down there? I said I went down there for the victims, not the victims here in Sudina, but the victims of the ones who had contacted me for 14, 15 years, those who'd been reading my blog for 20 years. I said I went down there to support them. I'd never met them. They never met me. It was closure for me. It was closure for me to support them. (43:28.342) I said, I said the fact is it, I'm not there to listen to their stories. If they want to share, they can. I'm just there to hold space for them, to let them know they're not alone, that there are thousands of other victims out there that they don't even know about. That's the fact that people are the victims of Nathan Chasing Horse are listening to what's happening, the outcome. of them getting justice. I said, for me, I had to be present because my niece died. What happened to her, she morphed into this person that was a danger to herself and others. I worked with high risk teenagers in Utah. I saw how they became predators. And for me, as a teenager growing up in my community, and with parents who were raised in Indian residential school, they didn't know about high risk behavior. I was in the thick of it. And yet, you know, learning about it and stepping back and saying, I can't participate in this. And I didn't even know, like, if I stopped doing things, even if I tried to have a goal, a G-O-A-L, to accomplish things, even if it was based on a faulty narrative of illusion or delusion, it got me, it helped me survive. And like I said, when I moved back and I was sexually assaulted at 19, I wanted to have my own place. So I did the proposal for the first daycare center. I think it was 50,000 and we hired a director and some staff and it was just a small little daycare, maybe 10. 20 kids at the first, but to oversee the renovation, just, they had a social worker, the money came in and I asked the chief and council if I could be the janitor in the basement of this little rickety old agency home. And they said no, because I was a single female. (45:46.144) Okay, so la-di-da, you know, they said you can be a bookkeeper after you come back from high school. I went back to high school in my twenties, early twenties. And then, and then my mother, my father passed away and then my mother was an alcohol drug abuse counselor. They, there was some lateral violence towards her and she was under pressure to get a detox treatment center going. So I helped her, volunteered, wrote the submitted it over 100,000 or something renovated this two story old agency building. And again, hired staff like the management hired staff. The money came in based on my proposals, right? Again, submitted it like I wanted to move into the basement so I could be the janitor. And again, they said no, you're a single female. Now understand this because of what I did, the chief and council back then. passed a policy that no woman who's a soutina could ask for a house. The only time a single soutina woman who had no children could apply for a house was after the age of 55 years old, which restricted me from ever applying for a house. Understand this, I lived away from my community for two decades paying paying rent, paying for my own education. Not once ever getting help from chief and council. Why? Because I was a single Indigenous female. As the Indigenous men live in the community, get voted into the community, get their own homes, get ranches and whatever they do, I and Indigenous women were at the bottom of the totem pole. Unless... Unless you were married or married in The majority of times I think I think the women who married in were so laterally violent of whatever they lived with their communities they brought that shit into our communities and projected it onto people like myself and Whatever dirty gossip they created about me. Like I said these two women who initially had wanted to rescue me (48:09.086) as they saw me unconscious in the car were married in. And for all those decades, just to save their asses from getting the hell beaten out of them by their serial rapist husbands, they protected themselves. Are they still living? Just one is. Just one woman is. The one perpetrator is still alive. And the reality of it is nobody, he has no friends. He goes to a car dealership every day, sitting there just to meet strangers. I guess, much like if I go to the casino and just sit and meet strangers, maybe I'm in my own little hell. But that's the reality. You know, that is the reality. Like I said, I was shunned for going down to Las Vegas because they thought I was going there because I was obsessed with Nathan Chasing Horse. Even though I'm saying, I'm there supporting these women. The whole context of why they can't comprehend what I started 20 years ago. Yet those women who I met, who told me about their lives with Nathan Chasing Horse, like some for 35 years, some for 25 years, like that's a long time to be drinking the Kool-Aid. And for them to own that, yeah, they were laterally violent towards me until they realized like what he was doing. You know, like the empowerment or the validation those women gave me was life altering and life changing for me. And the very fact that these women who ostracized me in can't even do that for me? Shame on them. They don't deserve me to be a friend to them. (50:18.83) How's that for awakening? They don't. And that's okay. And that's all right. All right, my friend, I need to go. Yes. Well, thank you for listening. like I I do hear healing in your voice. Healing? Yeah. Oh, I appreciate that. You're much calmer. You're much more relaxed. And I know you're healing. It's been a long time coming. Yes, it has been, but you're there now. Okay? Yes. So I will see you soon. Okay. Yes. Take care. Okay. You too. Bye-bye.

Truth-Telling as it might seem naive on my part as a senior woman

Reflections on Indigenous Womanhood, Leadership, and Truth-Telling Introduction Seeing our true self isn't easy. For me, its avoidant attachment with a Smidge of Limerance.My human brain is chemically incapable of wanting 'the unobtainable' much in the same way after one sleeps with another. When a I Was sexually active pursuing a man & then withdraws after sleeping with him, my first thought was that I got what I wanted; however, that is not was happened. I experienced neurochemical crash. During my pursuit of him my brain flooded with dopamine, same chemical released during gambling, drug use,& competitive sport. This process never goes away & I continue this behavior cycling through dopamine rush. Much when I'm waiting for a text, a delayed response amplifies it until the uncertainty ends. Dropping dopamine sharply. I haven't changed; however, my brain chemistry has. So when I gamble I stay so as not have this emotional come down. It's warmth of dopamine,obsession, the constant thinking about me from a complete stranger is driven by a chemical left in his bloodsteam. It's not his choice rather it's a withdrawal he had expeiencing this chemical change in our brain cell & has nothing to do with me. It took years for me to understand that some brains are meant to chase and not stay. Limerance for me is the seeking of the unaobtainable. With guided narratives, therapies, groups & courage to heal this self-defeating behavior can be eliminated.Truth-telliing has gotten me in trouble with men & I end up thinking what did I do wrong, as men's responses to this dopamine drop is quicker than a female's drop. As an elder woman, I will not apologize for any anger outburst when talking about gender apatheid.I know it exists everywhere; however, I live with 'battle fatigue.' If I didn't try to keep at deal with this fatigue there would be no BLOG or activistism. It's March. 23rd, 2026. My name is Marina Crane, and I'm attempting another podcast. Although I've created other podcasts before, each time I use a different app and a different technique. I hope not to repeat myself, but I also want to acknowledge that I'm 74 years old. That’s not to suggest my abilities are diminished—after all, Ronald Reagan became President of the United States at 73. It’s worth reflecting on how we often view leadership and age, especially when it comes to memory and capacity. I digress, but perhaps I'm making excuses for not being more specific about this episode. Typically, when I record a podcast, I try to focus on certain issues important to other Indigenous women, as most of my listeners are women. I appreciate the presence of sisterhood and matriarchy in cyberspace. Still, it’s important to mention the value of honest dialogue with men. Indigenous men are different from white men, and while I’ve never been married to a white man, I grew up surrounded by white people. Childhood Experiences and Lessons on Self-Defence When I was bussed into Calgary to attend Fairview School, many non-Indigenous kids were cruel to the Tsuutina kids—at the time called Sarcee—using relentless slurs and insults during recess. To defend ourselves, we strategized to ensure that if things escalated, it was the other party who threw the first punch. This way, we could defend ourselves without being labelled as the aggressors. I became known for always winning my fights, and this reputation eventually led others to leave me alone. Even so, some girls continued to be harassed and would come to me for support. Just my presence became enough to deter bullies. This experience taught me about the dynamics of patriarchy, and I noticed that some Indigenous men adopted colonial views, which complicated our relationships further. I can’t claim to know how to deprogram these influences in Indigenous men, but I can share my journey to reconcile my values and beliefs as an Indigenous woman. Family, Identity, and Historical Context I’ve always been proud of my Indigenous identity. My parents travelled to South America when I was eight and to India when I was ten, exposing me to a broader perspective of world history and civilizations, much of which was absent from school textbooks. As a woman and an elder, I reflect on my childhood and the many lifetimes of experience I carry. Growing up, I learned the importance of self-defence and assertiveness, especially after experiencing violence firsthand. At 19, I was sexually assaulted by two Indigenous men. This event, and the subsequent lack of support, highlighted the realities of gender apartheid and trauma within our communities. It made me realize that before we can address injustices in wider society, we must also acknowledge and own the issues within our own communities. The Impact of Colonialism and Religion My life has been shaped by exposure to various religions and the impact of colonial systems like the Indian Act. These systems ingrained patriarchal values in Indigenous men, teaching them to view women as property and denying them rights, including the right to vote. This was reinforced by experiences in residential schools, where children were deprived of love and emotional support. Thousands of children suffered and died in places meant to provide safety, leaving intergenerational trauma that persists today. The denial of these histories, even by some Indigenous people, is a challenge we continue to face. Language, Education, and Navigating Two Worlds Language was another battleground. I spoke Sioux fluently until I was five, then English became my primary language after I was bussed into the city. Encounters with other Indigenous children sometimes led to bullying if I couldn't speak their language. My education was self-financed, as I received no help from my community or Indian Affairs. Working in predominantly white environments, I had to be careful not to react to racist comments for fear of losing my livelihood. Eldership, Advocacy, and Community Dynamics As an elder, I can speak my truth without apology, even if it offends others. Supervisors and upper management in our communities, especially when working with white men, must navigate their roles carefully, always advocating for their people without causing offence. Employees outside of management have more freedom to speak openly. This dynamic parallels my position as an elder—I can express myself freely, but it sometimes triggers or offends others. Friendship, Support, and Loss of Status for Indigenous Women Growing up with white friends, I sometimes assumed they were allies, only to find they lacked the courage to bear witness to injustice. The realities of Indigenous life are often misunderstood by non-Indigenous people. For Indigenous women, marrying outside the community—especially to white men—often meant losing status, community, and support. In contrast, white women marrying Indigenous men often retained connections to both communities. The loss of status for Indigenous women led to displacement, isolation, and, in cases of violence, lack of support. The 60s Scoop and related policies further fragmented families and communities. Foster Care, Sovereignty, and Systemic Barriers As a child and teenager, I saw group homes for unwed mothers and later, homes run by Indigenous social workers. However, these facilities were not governed by Chief and Council but by provincial and federal mandates. Sovereignty is limited in our communities; without independent revenue, we cannot establish our own shelters and group homes. As a result, many Indigenous children are placed in urban foster care, losing their language and cultural connections. My own family experienced this—transferring my niece and nephew back to the community required special requests and navigating government regulations. The lack of true sovereignty is evident in these struggles. Truth-Telling, Healing, and Responsibilities as an Elder When discussing injustices and gender apartheid with non-Indigenous people, especially men, I am not trying to belittle anyone but aim to tell the truth as I have lived it. There are Indigenous female journalists, lawyers, and professors who bear witness to these stories, but as an elder, my responsibility is to speak the truth, even when it is uncomfortable. The act of receiving tobacco in ceremony signifies this bond of truth-telling with Creator, not with individuals. My role is to uphold the protocols and responsibilities passed down by my ancestors. Trauma, Limerence, and Collective Healing The experiences of survivors of abuse, such as those harmed by Nathan Chasing Horse, deeply affect me and my community. The emotional and physical scars remain, and the importance of holding space for healing is paramount. Women’s shelters exist for those who have experienced severe violence, but healing from trauma and limerence requires collective and holistic approaches. Support groups and sharing stories are ways we confront these realities. Interpersonal Relationships and Advocacy Travelling with men, especially white men, is rare for me. When I travelled to Las Vegas with a white companion, he listened and processed the difficult truths shared by survivors. I appreciate his willingness to be present, even if it was uncomfortable. In my community, my presence alone sometimes unsettles others, especially men who may feel exposed in their behaviour towards women. Indigenous women continue to advocate for themselves and each other, despite burnout and challenges. Family, Kinship, and the Meaning of "All My Relations" The concept of "all my relations" is deeply rooted in my Dakota, Lakota, and Nakota heritage. My extended family includes dozens of grandparents and relatives, each with large families of their own. This interconnectedness speaks to the depth of our history and spirituality, which colonial systems sought to dismantle by dividing families. Understanding and maintaining these connections is a form of resistance and healing. Conclusion: The Importance of Truth and Holding Space Western Canada has a particular understanding of systemic racism, with a history distinct from eastern Canada. My podcast aims to illuminate these realities, to challenge performative behaviour, and to encourage honest reflection and truth-telling. The legacy of colonialism, trauma, and resilience is part of who I am and who we are as a people. I hope that by sharing these stories, others—especially non-Indigenous men—can have the courage to stand with us, hold space, and bear witness to injustice. We must continue to speak, share, and support each other for the sake of generations yet to come. Thank you for listening. Wōpidāmidākyāpyawasana. We're all related.

Debriefing after a week from experiencing a very emotional few days

 

Marina Crane (00:05.56) Good afternoon. It's March 24th, Tuesday. It's around noon here in Tsuutina, First Nations, Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I know most of my audience are American and female. So, but I'm putting it out there because I appreciate you all being there. Now, I kind of apologize because I had...I plan to have somebody come in and talk with me about Godman. But I want to reach out to my audience and say thank you for trusting me with personal things that I said about my experience witnessing or being in the courtroom and seeing Nathan chasing us for the first time. To clarify.is that even though you weren't present with me, I'm taking it on as if you were present with me, and because you're my audience. so presence matters. And there are things that I want to focus on that are important. First, there's the validation. And the thing is, if you've ever been in a courtroom with someone that you cared about that has been a victim, I don't know, for me, I've been in the courtroom as a rape victim, and it's important to have a sense of validation, not for revenge or punishment. Marina Crane (01:58.774) because the outcome of the court proceedings before they're found guilty, we have no control over. So even for me, not attending Nathan Chasing horses' trial, which has been ongoing because it's been delayed and delayed. The fact that I was hoping to just witness the sentencing, again, that was also delayed until April 1st. Yet others, the survivors of Nathan Chasing horse, knew the truth and they still stood alongside each other. the fact is they lived and they realized that they're not alone. For decades, Nathan Chasing Horse tried to silence them. And the thing is like when somebody tries to silence in a way, someone tries to make you feel like you're inadequate. You need to have some sort of validation that's grounding. It restores your dignity rather than chasing justice through harm. I know sometimes it's more complicated than that and as for me it is. I grew up not experiencing as much violence as most children have or even in my adult life. I think I've lived a very sheltered life but I'm still struggling with things like reoccurring like limerence or I have a avoidant attachment to being intimate or or just holding space when I get triggered. That's part of my conversation too with this podcast is that there is hope for people recovering from trauma in childhood. It's a lifetime journey, but all human beings go through it, and to some degree it's extreme. And as you go through support, and I'd finally mention support in whatever way it comes, whatever way it comes, some through therapy, some through support groups, and through family and community. So whatever way it comes, it's important. Marina Crane (04:17.166) And for me, because I've grown up around patriarchy and I have matriarchal lineage, matriarch power is not performative or symbolic, it's rational. When we talk about protection and boundaries and responsibilities, and the continuity of self because as little girls or as teenage girls or even as young women, a lot of times people want to take away our identity. And helping each other has a ripple effect. At the same time, not helping each other also has a ripple effect. The difference from power built on charisma, hierarchy, or fear. And that's the whole gist of it when it comes to Nathan Chasing Horse, the hierarchy and the charisma created around fear, his ability to manipulate, especially children, like in ceremonies, he'd hit them over the head with a rattle, scare them. And for some reason, and again, I'm not saying that we can each put ourselves in that position because it's the analogy that I was taught years, heard years and years ago. about healthy human sexuality and that they say when an adult thinks about having sex with a child, it's not sinful, it's just a thought. But it's the time when the adult actually... has the act and does that to a child when it becomes unforgivable. See, and that is the tipping point where something is unforgivable because there is something in the perpetrator that's instilling fear in the victim. Rather than just dealing with their own fear, like fear of intimacy or whatever that fear may be, there is some illusion or delusion that was built up and it's mostly environmental. Marina Crane (06:17.73) But I want to make a distinction too that there are some people who are just born this way. I don't want to make any analogies of people's sexuality, but there is something disturbing when somebody becomes so dangerous. Anyway, I want to talk more about, in some of the podcasts I have talked about, how Indigenous people dealt with such people traditionally. You're as as as a witness to anybody who has been a victim you're naming You are naming a real distinction between living teaching and appropriate narratives used to control so much of the time even though you're unaware of it because We when we've all experienced some sort of trauma. We do see that we do see the difference between the teachings and the narrative used to control people. That distinction matters, especially in the conversation of spirituality, colonization, and exploitation. I know as a child, I do talk about being bullied by white kids, because I've been around. white people and I want to use the word white in a respectful way even though it might sound like I'm not respected because a lot of the times when it comes to racism a white person says well I sense racism but the thing is how could you you're not a minority so I'm using the term a white person in the sense of just privilege. Now it will take it will offend some white people and I'm not going to apologize. I do trust white people. But at the same time, too, there's also this hierarchy or this point of view of privilege, which for me as an Indigenous woman who's lived most of her life in gender apartheid, I can't comprehend that. Marina Crane (08:27.732) Sometimes in some weird twisted way I do because I'm an indigenous elder and within my community I do have privilege, which again, I didn't understand it until I became an elder. So if I do offend white people who've lived a privileged life, that's my analogy, that it's taken a lifetime for me to feel that. What you as the listener or you as the witness to somebody that you know that has been a victim, just your presence, being there without engaging, witnessing without feeding distortion is actually a very healthy boundary. So just standing there witnessing empowers the victim, whether or not it shook anyone externally. Like just being present, say, in a courtroom and the perpetrator seeing you, it shifts something internally for, like say for me and for all the other victims who are waiting to hear the sentencing of Nathan Chasing Horse. The reality though is like even just the presence of how it shook you. One of the victims came out of the courtroom after they had delayed the sentencing, was crying. It was very emotional. So you don't have to prove or argue or perform pain. You simply exist in truth by supporting others. That's not small. Also, it's important about, it's also important about hope.not hope tied to outcome, sentence, or institutions, but hope rooted in lineage and continuity. See, for me, being Indigenous, it was one thing that I wrote my blog. And I never, like sometimes I receive emails or phone calls consistently, but like it wasn't, I shouldn't say consistently. I think people didn't want a right to identify or something, but. Marina Crane (10:44.238) When I was on the 15th floor in the courthouse and I saw Indigenous Native American women coming in, I didn't know what to expect. I really felt fearful because I didn't know them, they didn't know me, or I assumed they didn't know me. And I was traveling with a male companion who went into the courtroom before me. And while I was there outside with the other people, The group of people came up to me, like from California, Montana, Arizona, and they shook my hand. See, I didn't know they had been reading my blog since I started writing. And they thanked me for the idea, like they thanked me for writing that narrative. So for me, being constantly in battle fatigue as an Indigenous woman, Part of my fighting off that battle fatigue is to be an advocate or to write a narrative. So anybody who bears witness is doing this work. And there must be many others doing it too. I realize there's police and there's courts and social workers. So many people there for victims, and yet sometimes the victims fall through the cracks. somehow when we do the work of working with victims or even being a victim ourselves, we're not in denial.that's perspective. It takes the burden off one's person having to carry everything and place it back where it belongs across community, across generations. And when I talk about intergenerational trauma or intergenerational lack of support for children, especially from Indian residential schools, 60s scoop, foster care, it brings a lot of anger. And I didn't know how deep it was. Marina Crane (12:51.946) until I start it, when I start talking about it. And I think that's part of my avoidance, avoidance attachment, because it stops me from being intimate in a conversation when somebody's trying to show me some compassion. One thing I wanted to generally anchor is You as the audience in your steadfastness, in your support that you've had for the victims or someone you know and loved. Everything you can describe can be held as you've lived the meaning without needing to frame it as like as you're looking or being present.for this healing is destiny, karma, or a cosmetic assignment in the way that's put pressure on you. I think sometimes when we are so involved in advocacy or even being there to support, we forget the outside pressures that are coming to us because we're in the moment. We try to act in alignment with our values, our core values, and we try to show up with integrity. We try to protect ourselves because we know we're not alone. We know there are other people who've gone through childhood trauma as we have. And our battle scars show, like our battle fatigue shows, in some form or another, either through limerence, attachment disorders, whatever mental health or even emotional, you know, people when they get into relationships, they say, emotional baggage. Well, call it what it is. You know, we don't owe the university anything more than continuing to care for ourselves and others in a substantial way. I had hoped I would have a male invited to my podcast. Marina Crane (14:54.104) who is like a god-man or trying to be a spiritual person. But it takes extra strength and some continuity that are there. Not all people can name exploitation without sensationalizing it. Honouring ancient practices without turning them into commodities. Centering survivors' boundaries and accountability rather than personalities. See, all that, I mean, I learned some of this stuff in childhood. I grew up my whole life around white people. I live in a community of reserve or reservation, whichever terminology you feel comfortable in addressing me. And I was bussed in and out into a city every day when I went to junior high, elementary and high school. So there's...There's a lot of times when I just, as a child, I've been bombarded every time by white kids calling me squaw, wagon burner. It got to the point like a group of us just got tired of it and we hatched up a scheme to...deter this name calling in, we decided if they're going to bother us continuously, we've got to shut them down. So we devised a plan that if they were so mad at us and they hit the first punch to attack us, then that gave us right to defend ourselves and we wouldn't be charged with fighting or expelled from school. Marina Crane (16:42.634) So that was the whole point was to face the people who hated us to the point where they would strike out. And I was a very strong child, so I won all my battles. And as a result, a lot of the white kids feared me and would not cross paths with me or call me names. Mind you, I couldn't prevent it if they called me behind my back. But I'm just using it as an example of some god men or god women. I think sometimes you do have to take a stand because a lot of the values and belief you believe in will always be challenged. And I think sometimes you do have to have battle fatigue or you have to have an invisible armor to protect yourself every day. Let's see. So for me, grounded in a podcast narrative that avoids retraumatization, I had recommended that some of the survivors do podcasts without naming themselves or names within their story or their narrative to avoid being retraumatizing the self. You know, I've tried many times to make taking outline talking points that keep the focus on the system, not speculate. So you've to protect your emotional boundaries by engaging publicly. For me, that's part of combating battle fatigue. I think most minority women use activism or narrative to find balance and refresh or It's like relapse and recovery. The narrative and the activism is recovery in the whole process of relapsing in that battle fatigue. So it's a fact that you've got to rest, resting in the fact that you don't have to carry everyone to honour your ancestors. You don't have to carry everything. We're already walking in alignment with choosing truth, restraint and care. Marina Crane (19:02.4) So it's important to make sure that the people that you're there for or talking about or being, you know, a sister or auntie or grandmother or just another human being is to let them know that you're present and you're willing to bear witness. Now I've created other podcasts before. and I've used different people to come in and I'm grateful that they've come in to support me and have conversations about my experience around Nathan Chasing Horse because it has helped me understand my own avoidant attachment when it comes to intimacy. Even how what motivates me to do my activism, what promotes me or challenges me to do a podcast. Because it can get really heavy laden and you have to have some sort of impetus or catalyst to get you going. And most of the time I've used attachment to motivate me and I learned that quite a while ago when I was in my 30s attending university. I focused on avoiding intimacy by focusing on unrealistic expectation. so that I didn't have to deal with my emotions. I had to deal with studying, work, and surviving. Anyway, I'm 74 years old and I digress sometimes when I'm talking on my podcast. But I do have privilege in the sense that I can articulate because I've spoken English. most of my life. I understand various languages or I understand or can distinguish between Cree, Blackfoot, Dakota, Navajo, Polynesian, Japanese, Chinese. Well, we all do. Anyway, I digress. I'm just saying I'm doing this so that as I age, I've documented things that I have clear memory of or understand of myself. Marina Crane (21:21.42) Like I said, it's constantly learning and, you know, prior to doing the blog, my whole issue was around limerence and how limerence is a part of childhood trauma. But I am just understanding now attachment, just like avoiding intimacy. And I think part of why I do this blog is for Indigenous women because, you know, we've experienced gender apartheid in various ways. And I hope that some of the content that I do talk about does resonate with you because, you know, this is a safe place for sisterhood, matriarchy and cyberspace. And I hope to, you know, let you understand that I...that it's important to have an honest dialogue with men. All types of men. I enjoy that because I've never been married nor have I ever had children. So I grew up surrounded by white people. I grew up surrounded by indigenous people. And from my childhood experience, like I said, I was bussed into the city school system. kids can be really cruel, relentless in their racial slurs and you know you have to learn how to defend yourself like I said you you you're waiting for them to throw that first punch you're always on guard that you know someone's gonna attack you like aggressively because they just you know they just want to get under your skin they want you to they want to trigger you the reality of it is like you know these white kids are coming also in place of trauma Marina Crane (23:16.748) So it's not just, I think it's just as you're growing up, you don't realize a lot of times when children are angry, it's because of something happening in their home too. So just being present and being there to support each other deters bullies. This experience has taught me about the dynamics of patriarchy. When I noticed that some indigenous men adopt this colonial view. which is complicated in any relationship they have with other women. I can't claim to know how to deprogram these influences around Indigenous men, nor can I try to even understand how white men perceive what I talk about, especially when I'm talking so negatively, not directly to white men, but about the whole, generally speaking. I usually use an analogy. Because I start making a joke when I find things uncomfortable. So if I start laughing in this conversation, it's because it's uncomfortable for me. So when I'm in front of a white man or white woman and they're listening to my narrative and they apologize and they say, I'm sorry, I jokingly say, when you say that to me, I see you standing in front of me, but behind you, I see a billion white people. because you're saying like you're sorry on behalf of your race. I said that's how I see it because you're standing there in privilege. Now whether or not they can reconcile their values and beliefs around how they perceive me as an Indigenous woman, at the point like they've apologized, so I feel like I'm safe enough to go forward and talk about intimate things that have really Like I said, I've suppressed it so deep down and once in a while when I feel like I'm comfortable, I can trust the person, I will expose that anger, that just total frustration and emotional pain. I've always been proud of my Indigenous identity. My parents, it started when I was eight or even probably younger. I wasn't around white people my whole life. I think I saw my first white person when I was...Marina Crane (25:39.98) maybe four or five. Mind you, when I was 30 and I worked up in Fort McKay, Alberta, I met a lady, she was in her 40s then, but she said she saw her first white person when she was 18. So in Western Canada, we haven't had that much experience around systemic racism as Eastern Canada has. So like I said, my parents traveled, they traveled through to South America and...They saw so many things. And then they went to India when I was eight. anyway. much of the oral history and their narrative was talking about world history and world civilizations and the reality that a lot of this was absent in our academic books in junior high, elementary and high school and even in universities. So as a woman now I reflect back like 50 years or even longer. You know like I said I'm 74 so I reflect back. You know, over 70 years, I'm 74. So I've had like many lifetimes and it's important to have some self-defense, some self-assertiveness, especially when you've experienced violence firsthand. Much of my limerence or the birthplace or the creation of my limerence was seeing my father attack my mother. Even though I lived in denial that I didn't see so much violence, it was the watching of it because that's avoidance. It just has built into me to avoid intimacy. I ran away when I was 18, and when I returned home at 19, I was sexually assaulted by two Indigenous men who were serial rapists within my community. Marina Crane (27:45.1) And as a result of the lack of support and the realities of gender apartheid and trauma within our communities, it took decades for me to realize and how to address the injustice of the wider society, both within my community and outside, with white women too, that they've had issues just as we as Indigenous women have. The reality though is there are some things that...privilege has and there are some things that colonialism and religion has had an impact in my life as an Indigenous woman which is different in how white women have seen things. I've had discussions with close intimate white friends about, because we're both female, about how we see healthy human sexuality and it's important. At the same time too, I've tried to talk to various men about the same issues and how various religions have impacted the colonial systems like, well, various religions and various policies like the Indian Act. These systems are ingrained in patriarchy that has been deemed as valuable towards Indigenous people living in...First Nations communities for First Nations Inuit and Métis and the worldviews of Indigenous women as property, denying them rights, even including them not to vote, even including them that if they married a non-Indigenous man, if they married a white man, they would lose their status. And further reinforcing this pervasive or guardianship type of ownership over the female image or female apartheid was exercised in those Indian residential schools, whereas children who were deprived of love and deprived of emotional support. Thousands of children suffered in these places that were supposed to provide safety, leaving intergenerational trauma that persists to this day. And I keep on reiterating the avoidance of intimacy. Marina Crane (30:07.64) For me personally, I'm talking about myself personally. Each one of you has some form of, we'll say, level of whatever you call it, but you feel it, you understand it, you know yourselves. denying those histories of ourselves as Indigenous people is a challenge that we have to face because people are depending on us. you know, I shouldn't say you know Language is another background too, which is a very powerful energy. I spoke Sioux fluently until I was five. How do I know that? I have Sioux relatives who told me they remember me speaking fluently. My primary way of communicating is English because I was busting out of the city with other Indigenous children like myself and My education, my formal education with university I paid for by myself. Mind you again, back in the day they were basically grooming us to become teachers if they financed us through university. And we had to have our great 12 diploma. Working predominantly in a white environment. I had to be careful not to interact with saying racist comments for fear of losing my livelihood. And again, too, that's the whole thing about growing up with white kids in elementary school, junior high and high school. When you're a kid, you can say whatever you want without any consequences. And then when you come into the real world and you know that the dominant race is white and that...Even if they're racist, you still have to earn your bread and butter and pay your bills. So you have to be complacent. You have to know your place. And for decades I did. I lived in the United States and I lived in a very racist state. So now as an elder, I can speak the truth without apology. Marina Crane (32:25.344) even though it may offend others. the thing is, because I'm speaking my truth, I'm speaking my truth even when I use the word white men or white women. And I say it frequently and deliberately because I have white friends and they apologize. They say, behalf of my people, I'm sorry. Now, that's important because...If a white man or white woman takes offense by my using the word white to engage with them, it's to make, especially when you're the only white man in a group of Indigenous people. I've learned when I've had white friends come to my home or engage with other Indigenous people and my addressing them as white people is hoping that...They understand that the people who are listening are greeting them and saying, yes. They're not taking it as a token. It's more of like a humor, like, okay, we can accept you because you're friends with Marina. So that's why I say it's not to be discriminatory or anything when I describe people that I'm with when I'm in a group of indigenous people. when I'm talking about issues about patriarchy and injustice, or even how the system works because it's a white system. So it's like being an elder. I speak my truth because I don't have fear of being fired, dismissed, attacked, or for any reason called down. When you're an employee, you have to mind your P's and Q's. Your position is to listen and do the best job you can for your employer. So I try to express myself freely, sometimes triggering and offending others without deliberately doing it because...Marina Crane (34:41.068) When I'm talking about truth, sometimes it's really difficult for my white friends to hold space for me. And when they are triggered, they will say that, I'm sorry, I'm sorry this happened. Sometimes I think they lack the courage to bear witness of the injustice. I know that because I've had childhood friends, white friends who had a really difficult time bearing witness to injustice. The realities of Indigenous life are often misunderstood by non-Indigenous people, especially if they've been married outside the community, especially to white men, often meant losing their status, community, and support. So if there is a white woman who didn't feel comfortable and tried putting me in my place, I wasn't married to a white man. And it's like having somebody backstab you. in front of you, they're okay, but in the meantime, they're dismissing you because they don't have the courage to challenge things that I offend them with. They try to retain connection with me somehow because they know they have an Indian friend. I've grown up knowing what losing status as an Indigenous woman is because I have aunties who married white men who were displaced, isolated, and in some cases experienced violence and lack of support because they're in a city or a town where they don't have support. They don't have Indigenous aunties and uncles and cousins and sisters and brothers to support them. And so the white man can do whatever he wants and even divorce the Indigenous woman. who has lost her status in Canada, they've lost their status. I think it's only in the past 20 years or 30 that Indigenous women who married white men could reclaim their status and move back to their communities. Again, like it says, if, know, Indigenous women have created a horrible crime that they were banished from our communities. But this is how the white men... Marina Crane (37:02.86) When I say white men, mean the political systems, provincial and federal, have set it up for Indigenous women. As a child and teenager, I saw group homes for unwed mothers. And later on in towns and communities, saw group homes and foster homes, shelters for Indigenous kids run by white people and Indigenous people. However, It's only recently since I've been stepping back and looking at my niece and the realities of when she was apprehended along with her brother and sister, when my brother was arrested, how she fell through the cracks through the foster care system. Now, the reality of it is that the foster care systems in Canada, there are only a few tribes that have taken over their governance. My community is run under provincial and federal child and family laws. Now get this, even if you've worked for child and family and you've had your credentials, you have your degree, and say you stop working for child and family and all of a sudden you've got to be foster parent to your grandchild or grandson. And you have to go through the same meticulous work as if you're some criminal before they can even say that your house is safe for your grandchild. Now that's provincial and federal mandate. sovereignty, we wouldn't have to go through those rigorous trials and limitations. mean, yes, we have to protect our children, but we have to have independent revenue outside the province or the federal government to establish our own shelters and our own group homes for our children. Because if we don't, our children will continually be picked up like they did in the 60s scoop, like they did in Indian residential schools, like they are happening right now in all the care systems, like in the city of Calgary. And as a result, our children are losing their language, their cultural connection. In my own family, my niece and nephew came back to my community on special request. Marina Crane (39:22.6) as I navigated the regulations. And because of lack of sovereignty, it was evident how truthful the struggle was, especially when it came to their half-sister who wasn't a nation member, who didn't belong to our tribe, that she wasn't able to be placed in a foster extended care in my community. Rather, she was placed in a group home where she was trafficked. That's the disgusting part of it when I talk about the establishment of white society and white patriarchy. And if I use the analogy of white men, I'm being holistic in the sense that this is what one billion people are doing. Like, and unconsciously, because we're just a minority. They don't see us every day on the streets. like we're not as common like there's 
a billion black people in the world. seeing indigenous people doesn't mean anything because you know we're not, let me put it this way, we're so far removed from the realities of daily living for people on Dail Today that we don't, when our stories are...are being presented, it's only if comes from a white cohort or white ally that it makes the news. again, attachment, avoidance for intimacy, just a white man holding space for me triggered me. And I can't apologize. I refuse to apologize. I've really dug deep thinking, why should I apologize? And then I realized, this is my own teaching. I still avoid intimacy. And I think I will continue avoiding intimacy because it's very triggering. It's very triggering when I know that today, when I have our young women who are single parents who die, Marina Crane (41:36.45) Because we don't have group homes or group shelters in our communities. And maybe the extended care of family is so saturated that the children can't stay in our communities that they're put in foster care. They've lost not only their parent, their extended family, their community, their culture, their language. It's heartbreaking because there are thousands of children out there. But this is still happening to. Marina Crane (42:13.42) So of course, I'm gonna still hold that anger. Cuz it's persistent. It's persistent in everything I experience in my community. Every week for the past two months, we've buried young people from cirrhosis or drug overdose. Like I said, the question is so huge and the answer is so huge. And when I have a white man saying, well, it's everywhere. And I said, yes, I know. But for me, battle fatigue is real. It's been so real. Even 20 years ago, I started trying to combat battle fatigue by writing my blog about Nathan chasing horse. I tried advocating. for the injustice of what I saw happening with Indigenous women and girls. Like any way for me to combat battle fatigue. And I'm a person that doesn't have a partner. I don't have children. I have extended family. I have immediate family. I have community. So I can't even comprehend how hard it is for other Indigenous women to battle fatigue. because there's so many extenuating circumstances of emotional overload, burnt out, you know, just even trying to discuss the injustices and gender apartheid. Sometimes it's so triggering and they don't want to talk about it. Like they'll say, Marina, are you still going to be talking about Nathan Chasing Horse? And I'm saying, said he's sentenced. I'm at peace that he's found guilty. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop talking about the injustices of what's happening within our communities when it comes to the mental health of children, the mental health of Indigenous girls and women. I know sometimes it seems like it's an uphill battle trying to educate white men about the truth of what it's like to live in an Indigenous community. Marina Crane (44:31.52) I know it's not just white men. I met a very prominent Indigenous man who was a full professor, was consolidating all of his companies into 10, had worked in different departments in government organizations in the United States and at the federal and national level as well. And he said to me that he didn't know what it was like. He'd been in the foster care system, but had never once lived in an Indigenous community. Now in Canada we have an influx of a whole bunch of people pretending to have lived in Indigenous communities. Now why am I mentioning this? Well it's because like this man says, see I've got my status card, like he's got his treaty card or whatever you call it, enrollment card. He says, I don't access like the tribal funds in Canada, it's band funds. He said, well why should he? You know, he's a millionaire. Why should he access our band funds when there are so many of our children and young people who are unemployed, uneducated, who are trying to get jobs in the white world, who refuse to be part of that trafficking of employees like you, know, whatever color that person employee's skin is. to hold over like you got to work overtime, you got to do all this. you know that anyway, I'm just saying that this, this indigenous man, he says, as long as I have my card, and I can show that I'm proud to be indigenous, that's all that matters. And for me, he's not writing books. He's not creating musical songs or albums and winning Academy Awards or anything like that to prove like pretending he's Indigenous to gain notoriety. Because like, let me face, let's put it this way, when I was eight and 10 years old, where were these people who were pretending to be Indigenous? Where were they? They were so ashamed. Now, like I'm going, no, I've always known I've been Indigenous. So when somebody says, Marina Crane (46:54.838) my father, my mother, my grandmother, my... Like, excuse me. Unless you've actually lived in an Indigenous community, First Nations, Inuit or Métis, and you've experienced systemic racism, and you have... you've discovered the building that you've been born into is faulty, and that you have to have the courage to renovate it yourself. So most of my podcasts, what I talk about is that renovation of the self from trauma, from childhood trauma. Yes, I saw my mother being beaten up. I heard my father had affairs. I saw most women with black eyes. The majority of times when I tried to heal from my trauma, I was promiscuous. And you know, the whole facade or the reality of, you broke so many hearts. And I'm going, no, I took it upon myself to find somebody to have sex with. And I got what I wanted. And so did they. And we both walked away satisfied. End of story. Or it should have been. But the reality of the lack of not understanding intimacy has I want to say crippled me, because I do thrive. If I hadn't had these traumas, I wouldn't have learned how to use them as a catalyst to activate and motivate me to tell my story. It's not an easy thing to lay down and be depressed and think that there's no hope. But when you get inspired or you realize like there's somebody interested in what you have to say. Even if it means that you're avoiding talking about intimacy, like holding space for them. Like it's one thing for me to have people hold space for me, but the hardest part for me in attachment of intimacy or detachment for intimacy is to hold space for another human being. Marina Crane (49:20.086) because I have to practice that. And if I offend people or trigger people, I live with that. I struggle with it. You know, it's like emotional scarring, but it's important and it's paramount in healing. Women's shelters exist because there's severe violence out there. the trauma, the limerence, collective holistic approaches, avoidance of intimacy. Like there's support groups and there's many people out there. And a lot of times I've had, and I'm very fortunate that I have a network of support women. I tried when I first started to realize I had to go to court. I could have stayed in the United States my whole life. But...I had to come home and even though it was small and insignificant support groups when I first started, I've been able to develop over decades is very important because that, for me the podcast and talking to you as Indigenous women, because I said the majority of women who listen to my podcast are women and they're older women. Because as matriarchs, it's important for us to have our narrative. Because there are young women out there who are dying and needing to hear our stories. How did we succeed? How did we get to be as old as we are when so many their age are dying? How do young women protect their children from all this systemic racism? this gender apartheid? How do they teach their young men to respect women? And again, how can we do that unless we ourselves as Indigenous women, how can we hold space for people in general, whatever colour their skin is? How do we hold intimacy for them? Now sometimes I find that there are some Marina Crane (51:41.76) men who come across as being able to hold space, but really they're not. I'll use an example, especially when you're trying to be a spiritual man or a god man. And this can apply to god women too, or women who want to be medicine women. And I use the analogy I go back to again when I was a child and how I coped with people who just kept me. kept calling me down like Squaw, Wagon-burner. Those things and how they hated and aggravated me so much that I'd stand space and I'd say, okay, hit me. And they hit me and I'd put, I was a strong child. I was a strong girl. And they backed off and never bothered me again. Well, see, that's the same thing with spirituality. You know, when you have God men and God women or women men like Nathan Chasing Horse, and not just him, I'm talking about even specific people who come into Indigenous communities, not even Indigenous, you know, people who, you know, they say, you know, if we can help young people, if we can do this. But yet, when it comes down to just what you stand for, like I said, I'm using the example of that. signing up for the people you love. One of these godmen that I'd hoped would come in on my interview here in the podcast had told me about an incident that his former partner and his mother had and how they had an extreme argument and that his partner was so enraged by his mother. His mother is an elder and you know, like he just stood there like, what am I going to do? Well, because of his inaction, even though he's trying to look as the peacekeeper, the spiritual person, like in most spiritual people come across like they're really at peace. Understand this, what does it mean when you say you're at peace? A few months when he did, like when he did eventually leave his partner. Marina Crane (54:03.81) His partner's brother, who was this biker kind of looking guy, mechanic, buffed fellow, came up to him and said, if your mother ever confronts my sister again, you tell your mother I'm going to come over there and straighten her out. Now this is a guy who's coming across as a spiritual man, and a human being, okay? Put aside spirituality. Again, I go back to childhood. When a person is confronting me like that, If person came up to me and said that about my mother, I would make sure they threw the first punch. Because if he said that to me, I'd say, what? Say it to my face. And if he punched me first, I would be able to defend myself. Even if it meant I'd beat him up or he'd beat me up, the fact of the matter is I stood my ground and I defended the person I loved. Now, this man didn't do that. Yet he comes into our community and he's trying to teach our young people how to be strong. Like how can you do that unless you really know what it is to hit ground, to hit bottom? Especially when people attack the people you love. Because a lot of times when you're a spiritual person, you're defending your values and beliefs. Marina Crane (55:34.606) Sometimes, you know, it's unsettling. Especially like when you're in a community that, you know, you've grown up with people your whole life. I've had to stand my ground, you know, with people who called me down. And I have had them throw the first punch. And they have tried charging me. But they knew that they were the ones who started the fight first. And they had to drop the charges. But it was self-defense. And that's the whole point of it, you know, where there's conflict resolution, mediation and negotiating. However that looks and however it feels or you deal with, sometimes you do have to be very physical. And other times you have to be, you know, assertive, stand your ground, let them know some things that are being said to you are uncalled for. So when I talk to a white man and I say, white men have done this, or a white person, and he or she takes offense, it tells me a lot. It tells me a lot about that person. I mean, sure, things are forgivable, but there are other things that are unforgivable. And that's my whole reality of my podcast. Because for years, you know, I've heard so much religiosity, spirituality and all this stuff. And yet there are God men all over the world who have castrated, who have sexually assaulted like their followers. And this is just part of like being a human being. But at the same time, too, being a human being means to show compassion. And I find that it's a challenge to not be performative in our behavior, to have some honest reflection on truth telling. Yes, it hurts me to talk about white people this way, just as much as it hurts me to see children leaving our communities, just as much as it hurts me to...Marina Crane (57:48.108) know that they go missing and murdered. Just like it hurts me that hundreds of Indian residential schools killed our children. just as I know how emotionally damaging my parents were as children in these places where they weren't loved. So of course I'm going to have problems with avoiding intimacy. It's intergenerational trauma. And as a woman, I see this, but imagine, know, non-Indigenous, imagine Indigenous men. Sometimes...You know, it's hard to stand and be an ally or cohort when you know people don't have the strength to defend themselves. They don't have the strength to hold space. They don't have the strength to bear witness to the injustice that's being done to them because they just want to lie down and die. So. What can you do? Sometimes all you can do is just speak, share, and support each other for the sake of the generations to come. Sometimes when somebody goes through a psychotic episode and they're intoxicated or sober, all you can do is hold space and say, I'm here for you. Marina Crane (59:25.418) Even if what I say to you offends you, I'm here for you. And it's difficult, I know, even though as Indigenous people, or like as I said, the majority of my audience is female, even though, and I know most women could relate to this in the sense that... Marina Crane (59:51.53) It's not easy to understand how men feel. I know, like again, I'm laughing because it's uncomfortable. But even when I do offend men, I have to self-reflect and talk to other women and debrief and say, did I offend that person? Did I offend him? Because sometimes men, the majority of times, won't say how they feel if they've been offended. Some do, but it usually takes a while for them to hold space. Just as it's like us, we're human beings, we have to network with others to ask and self-reflect if what you just went through was real. Is this my reality? Did I have the right to voice my opinion on how I feel and how I see the system? How I see the system go against our women and our children? Like in the broader sense because, you know, we face it every day. We face systemic racism. We face gender apartheid. So I hope whoever my audience is, hold space for yourselves. I've to...hope and have you understand you listening is like you being in a courtroom with a victim ensuring space and understanding of what it's like to be present and bear witness to injustice. Once you start understanding what the narrative means, hopefully more of us will come forward and start talking about our traumas, our histories. Marina Crane (01:01:44.512) our battles with gender apartheid, our battles even with healthy human sexuality as we age. There's so many things that we do as Indigenous women that we cause this battle fatigue. And you know, I live it. I live it. I breathe it. I hold space for women in my community and women I've known most my entire life who struggle every day to try and create healthy environments for their children and grandchildren. So with that, I'll do some more. debriefing in outlines and podcasts and whatever I can in terms of having closure regarding the sentencing of Nathan Chasing Horse. Because this is a new chapter in my life that I'm, you know, I've learned so much from 20 years ago and to debrief about that, not the particular man himself. Like there's plenty of them out there in the real world. But just the impact of what we do to try and protect our children. Sometimes we put them in positions where it's unsafe. And sometimes, I believe as women, when you believe you're doing the best you can to stay with your abusive partner, the damage it's done to your child. Like I'm not blaming my parents, nor do I blame my grandparents. It's just a systemic system that I was born into, that they were born into. And we continue each generation to be born into this because of...Marina Crane (01:03:53.304) the colonial system. Like 500 years ago, didn't have that. 500 years ago, we were still spiritual people. But erasing our identities and our culture, stealing our children. For 500 years now, now understand the first 100 years, it's estimated that they killed five generations of our children. Five generations. That took 100 years to kill 125 million children, Indigenous children in the Americas. Marina Crane (01:04:33.61) So it's important as Indigenous women, you know, to whole space. Because we are worthy of being mothers. We understand what it is to carry a sacred being in our bodies. Even though I've never had children, it was how I was raised as a Dakota woman. I'm a matriarch. And to understand the teachings of my mothers, my aunts, and my grandmothers, and my grandfathers, is important. So...

With that, like I said, I'm going to end this podcast and I appreciate it. I'm using different techniques and doing my podcast and hopefully I'll get little more sophisticated. Right now I do most of my podcasts all raw. That being said, have a good day. Wopidamidakyapiyawasana. We are all related.

what is forgivable & what is compassion?

My personal opinion Marina Crane's Clip 09 08 2025