Gender Enslavement

Thank you for sharing this transcript. It is a wide-ranging and deeply personal reflection that combines your lived experience, Indigenous history, residential schools, slavery, colonialism, gender, spirituality, family relationships, and aging. A few major themes stand out: 1. Generational differences in residential school experiences One of your central arguments is that not all residential school experiences were identical. You distinguish between: Survivors who experienced direct physical violence and terror from institution staff. Later generations who may have experienced the aftermath through family trauma, addiction, violence, and disrupted relationships. You repeatedly emphasize that you do not deny the harms of residential schools. Rather, you are trying to draw attention to differences between direct experiences of abuse and the intergenerational impacts that followed. 2. Trauma versus analysis A recurring idea throughout the podcast is that trauma can interrupt a person's ability to analyze experiences objectively. You describe a process of: Reading. Comprehension. Analysis. Your concern is that some people remain trapped in the emotional reality of a traumatic event and never reach the analytical stage where broader historical, political, and social patterns can be examined. 3. Indigenous slavery and colonial systems Another major theme is your belief that Indigenous slavery has been overlooked in public conversations about North American history. You discuss: Indigenous enslavement in colonial America. Indigenous slavery in the Caribbean and South America. Historical works by scholars such as Andrés Reséndez and Margaret Ellen Newell. Connections between forced labor, colonial institutions, industrial schools, residential schools, and the Indian Act. Your larger argument is that Indigenous peoples were not merely victims of isolated incidents but were subjected to long-term systems of control, coercion, and dispossession. 4. The continuing legacy of colonialism You argue that colonial structures did not simply disappear. Examples you raise include: The Indian Act. Restrictions on Indigenous self-determination. Economic barriers. Cultural suppression. The long-term effects of residential schools on families and communities. You suggest that many current social problems are connected to these historical structures. 5. Indigenous women and lateral violence You spend substantial time discussing relationships among Indigenous women and the effects of internalized colonial values. Topics include: Shame. Respect. Affairs and family breakdown. Competition between women. Purity culture. Leadership and community relationships. Your concern appears to be that colonial ideas about hierarchy, gender, and worth continue to influence how Indigenous people treat one another. 6. Personal reflection and aging The transcript is also very personal. You reflect on: Being 74 years old. Caring for your mother. Your family relationships. Your experiences with Mormonism. Loneliness and attachment. The meaning of art and storytelling. There is an ongoing question running through the podcast: "What is my voice, and what is my responsibility as an artist and elder?" That, more than any historical discussion, feels like the emotional center of the piece. Strengths of the podcast The strongest parts are: Personal testimony. Intergenerational perspective. Specific stories. Your willingness to acknowledge complexity. Connecting historical issues to present-day realities. The story of the elder who was beaten in residential school is particularly powerful because it grounds the larger political discussion in a human experience. Areas that could be strengthened If your goal is to reach a wider audience, you might consider: Separating personal experience from historical claims. Clearly identifying when something is: Your personal opinion. A historical fact. A theory or interpretation. Organizing the podcast into sections. Providing sources for major historical claims. Spending more time on conclusions and less time on repetition. The core ideas are often compelling, but they sometimes become difficult to follow because several topics are woven together at once. Overall This transcript reads less like a lecture and more like an elder's reflection on memory, history, trauma, survival, and responsibility. The central message I hear is: Understanding history requires more than remembering suffering. It requires analysis, honesty about colonial systems, recognition of intergenerational trauma, and respect for those who lived through experiences we cannot fully understand. That theme comes through clearly, even when the discussion moves across many different subjects.

Marina Crane (00:03.48) Good morning. Marina Crane here, October 25th, 2026. So, how many more days until Halloween? Well, this podcast is a little different, but yet at the same time, I think it's important because I have been working in our the arts community for quite a few years, well most of my life. struggling to be an artist or understanding my mission in this life. So with everything people say, well artists are the voice and so what is my voice? well there was recently a debate or discussion that I had on Friday and in the city of Calgary there has had been some demonstration when the bodies of the like the un like I shouldn't say bodies but the children that were found in B C that had been buried and the unmarked graves and the whole catalyst of the reality that there were children that actually died in these Indian residential schools. Now a lot of people who are upset and you know wear the orange shirt on j aug September thirtieth, like the average age maybe is thirty in their thirties, forties, you know, some fifty. I I want my audience to understand this. I'm seventy-four. And my argument to to like anybody who is demonstrating and saying, this is what happened, and they're fifteen under, there's a different different chemistry or different ge biology or geography or s some type of holistic concept of collective and reflective energies that really is disturbing to me because Marina Crane (01:56.192) Like the one fellow said, Well, my brother, you know, and he was talking about his parents and Indian residential school and the alcohol and drug addiction and like he he says there's no denying that these things happen in Indian residential schools and I said, You've gotta understand this You know, in the sixties sixties and forward sixties, seventies, eighties when the residential schools were still operating, those residential schools some of them were operated by indigenous people. And and in in in those in those decades, y you also have to understand too, most of the abuse was indigenous on indigenous. Now, I'm not denying the torture and the the horrific experience and this is what I was saying to them. I took care of my late mother. My mother would have been like almost hitting a hundred this year. And and I'm not dis discrediting anybody over the age of 70, like we'll say 70, go hitting 80 in the late seven the if in their their late seventies and eighties, because I'm 74. And I went to residential school, but it wasn't like the horror of of it all. It still had the same grooming and oppressive psychological abuse for me, in my opinion. And but But I was bust into a little town in Portuge La Prairie and then bust back to the residence. The same residence that I was staying in, my grandmother went to when she was a child. So we we did some forced labor too. We had to harvest potatoes and you know we did our daily chores and I like I said again there was grooming, but I cannot comprehend nor will I ever claim to understand my parents or my grandparents' lives in those places. And and that's the story. Marina Crane (03:51.562) stock difference. I'm seventy four. Anybody under the age, like I said, fifteen under, when they're upset and angry, that's because they're experiencing indigenous on indigenous the aftermath of the the the the mental health issues that took place with with like the people who came out of those places. And I'll use an example. I went to a worksho I I think I a previous podcast I mentioned I'd gone to a retreat And there was a elderly man and his wife. They're they're both spiritual people. And the fellow was talking about when he first went to Indian residential school. Now he was living there, okay. There's a stark difference. And he didn't know he had a a Christian name. And so when the matron or whoever it was corrected him on his English name, she just didn't say to him, This is who you are. She literally beat the bejezus out of him. I mean, wham bang slap he says, I remember how it felt, like the the slap across it like she beat him. he or she beat him and he was later imprisoned in an attic. Like he was scared. This was terror, this was trauma. And he talked about how he broke through a window in the attic with his cousin and they fled. They ran away and it was cold snow out there and he managed to make it to his aunties. Now that's a r that's trauma. That's a white person hurting an indigenous child. That's a white person Marina Crane (05:35.288) beating up a child like physic physical pain. Now when I talk about my ex experience going to day school, I'm seventy-four, this fellow I'm talking about is seventy-nine. He's raised on an isolated community with a resident in a res where there's a residential school. I'm I'm in I live I've been going into the city to go to school. The first day school was I think I spent two years there and that was it. We were bust into the city afterwards. But I but the but when I was told my name was Marina and I said, No, my name is Hapa, it it wasn't as it wasn't as traumatic as what this this seventy-nine year old was saying. I From Eva. I was listening to Vera talk. I like it wasn't it wasn't horrific. I mean, you know, I yes, I Let's see. Marina Crane (06:40.353) What I'm trying to get at is like my mother and my father, they they they like any kind of brutality was white on indigenous children. for for me for me it the experience was more indigenous on on indigenous. There was also that happening too when my parents and my grandparents went, but but the the the experience what I'm trying to get at is is so horrific that that this fellow still carries this resentment. Now I explained in the in my discussion or my argument with the person who was justifying like he's he's in his fifties and he's justifying well yo, no we we experienced this too. And I'm going I said I'm not downplaying the experience your your family had. Like I'm not downplaying my experience. I said the difference is When you have older indigenous people who had the bejesus beaten out of them by white people is totally different when you have an indigenous person beating up on another indigenous person. I said, because as a child you hold that in you. I said, I've been around white people my whole life. I I I don't have that same I don't hate white people. I don't fear them. I don't like I like I I don't get what's the frozen, I don't freeze and fear. a huge difference. I said there's a huge difference. And so when you're commemorating or you're trying you're remembering the lives of these children, I said you have to understand this. The the we still carry it. This seventy nine seventy nine year old man still carries that memory of a white person beating him up. Now to live with that your whole life Marina Crane (08:32.556) To live with that your whole life is is debilitating. And like I said, that you can you can read Eva. Oops, Vera Marie C C You can you can you can I'm sorry I lost track. But you can You can you can say a narrative like I do in my podcast and there's a process, there's information. So so the narrative, the read of it, the listener is listening and you comprehend. Okay, it's one thing to have the read and the comprehension, but the analysis and that's what I was saying to the in the argument on Friday. A lot of indigenous people who had this horrific experience of white a white adult beating up on a child, the trauma was so horrific that as they grew up in life they could not do analysis of the events of real like what's the reality of things that are happening. And I use the analogy I said when I was going to school with white kids, I was just a child myself. myself and I'd have white kids taunting me and haunting me and saying, make it rain, make it rain, do a rain dance and like I was just so totally upset with them. I said, okay, I'll make it rain. I mean if if they're gullible enough to n think I can make it rain, why not why not, you know, bamboozle them or manipulate them or yeah well hold on the manipulation of it. And you know, today people, you know, glab gravitate to spiritual indigenous people and you know if they're fool enough to believe something then you know like whose fault is it? So ev back when I was a child it was just like you know, like you come on. I'm I go to school with you, we're the same age and you're thinking that I'm I've got this spiritual power. but the end result was if they well, if they're ignorant enough to believe it then then let them believe it. Marina Crane (10:27.592) But see that's a childish notion, that's a process, that's a the read and comprehension. There's no analysis of it. Okay, as as children were there's no analysis of it. However, that's that's where it freezes for children who've been traumatized because as you mature you're you're still frozen in that o oppressive thinking. And and so as adults and elders when you're offered tobacco to pray, like at at what point do the people who are offering the tobacco understand the person they're giving the tobacco i is is hasn't healed. They they practice this way of coping, but it but it's not it's not an example of what is what a per when a person is mentally well. and and a lot of people can see that when when you have people like selling selling culture, selling, you know, like r s ceremonies and rituals, it's it's still a part of that hatred towards white people i in a sense where they haven't healed. It it's a little different when it's indigenous on indigenous because then you have lateral violence. And and so yes there there is a difference and I think we'll go back to the original Nathan Chasing Horse was notorious for that, indigenous on indigenous. Now A large part of what I say and what I've been talking to about slavery and industrial schools and Indian residential schools. So the City of Calgary is going to be unveiling their Indian residential school next year, 2027. And it's also going to be the 150th anniversary of Treaty 7. Now, at the same time, true, they're also acknowledging the industrial school, which is located off of Deerfoot and Glenmore Trail in Calgary, in the Southwest Quadrant. Now, there was a boy who died, White Goose Flying was his name. He was from Pagan, Pagani, in southern Alberta. And late Senator James Gladstone and the late Hugh Dempsey Marina Crane (12:39.776) we were able to find where the burial site was of this of this child and they d dug him up and put him in actual cemetery in in Southeast Calgary. Now for me because it's 150 years I'm saying why not just repatriate his body back to the Pagan Reserve. even though his descent he doesn't have any descendants, it's still the fact that you know he n he needs to go home. Now a lot of people like they're just going, well that's his I'm going, no, there's a history to it, the denialism of what was actually taking place. Now, I use a little bit of history when it comes to slavery and a hundred and five hundred years ago, and there's a lot of academic stuff and some of it's bullshit too, but you have to go read through it and you know really like do analysis. Because 'cause that's the whole point. A lot of times when it's just hearsay and we take it, that's that's not the part of the healing process. The read, the comprehension, the analysis is important. And and a lot of times I've gotten hooked up in things that I didn't really comprehend because I was I didn't see the whole picture. And but when I do see the whole picture I really put my boundaries down and say that's it. So so w what we I'm going to rec I'm going to play a recording because I I want you to get the gist of like s most of the time when I've talked about slavery it's it's about black slaves coming over from Africa. And I and also like the when it was that was stopped and then they had they had plantations where there were just breeding slaves. And and and the whole Marina Crane (14:23.426) The DNA samples of of tracing the male lineage genealogy back to Europe rather than Africa, the whole notion of indigenous, like black women, and I use that as a parallel, but the reality of it is this podcast is also gonna c talk about indigenous slavery. Now, why is it so key and important? Well, I'll use the example of when they were having breeding farms of of black women in the planet. Plantations, they bred a lot of a lot of children and they they were light-skinned children because the fathers were white and dark skin. So what they did is the definition, and I I I'm I feel I'm sorry that I didn't get the book or the bibliography for this, but I'm pretty sure if you can look it up. they they called them fancy girls and fancy boys if they had fair skin. So the fancy boys and fancy girls, those would be they'd be they'd look at being pleasant and they'd stay in the plantation, like in the in the master's house as house slaves or the overseers of of of other slaves. And and so and the fancy girls were more like prostitutes, you know, the the prostitutes of the slave owners. Again too, this these are breeding forms as well, but they were elevated into positions of power over other in black People. Now you take that same mentality, and again, you gotta understand this. When you when I when I re I I have three books that I'm going to refer you to as if you're interested in reading about indigenous people and slavery. like during the Salem witch trials. Okay, s so My whole point is that in Canada, again, you gotta understand in the sixties there was the civil rights movement. All this was happening too in the United States. But understand Canadian British law here. They created the Indian Act and they created industrial schools and they recruited fancy boys for these industrial schools. There was those are fair-skinned indigenous children. And and they were educating them to be like the overseers of the Indian agents. Okay, because Marina Crane (16:41.166) you couldn't do anything as an indigenous person unless you gave got permission from the Indian agent. And and this practice took place right until the 60s. so understand this too. So if you were a fancy boy and you went to these industrial schools, you you would be like the overseer of the other other people in in your community, First Nations, and you wouldn't make tea. Okay, so they they created these industrial schools for that. And that's where White Goose Flying died, and was just b a bo a place for young boys, fancy boys and frenzy girls, and I'll use that title very haphazardly. But the reality of it is that for for the the memory of Senator James Gladstone to like years later when he was elderly and had white hair to go and find the grave site and and you know, move this white goose flying's body. I like for me, in my opinion, I could just envision him digging the hole for his friend and then a bunch of other boys burying him, like having people see them, you know, do this work. Because a lot of these boys and these industrial schools, that's what they were doing. They were being trained to be farmers or ranchers, to be overseers. Now in Parliament there was a document, I don't know what year it was, and I I'm sorry I didn't write it down. where they had discuss that were making discussions of the g of this the boys who were in the industrial schools and they said it's one thing for us to educate them, but they're gonna go back to their communities and they're gonna marry indigenous girls and those those girls are gonna convert them back to savages. Okay, because you gotta understand if you're a fancy boy or fancy girl, that means you're halfway to being civilized. You know, like the this whole thing about conversion conversion, like a i and not just intellectual Marina Crane (18:38.874) But we're talking in terms of the color of your skin automatically promotes you to be civilized. So they said, well, that's the danger. So that's why they created Indian residential schools because they wanted to educate both male and female, whether or not they were fancy boys or fancy girls. But get this though, okay, the whole notion of slavery was in this these Indian residents, these industrial schools, and in the in these in Indian residential schools. schools. It's a hard concept to understand because the history of indigenous slavery has not been put in academic books or even documentation. Now when my when I was eight years old and ten, my like I mentioned, my father and mother went to South American India. Now my father and my mom my mom they were talking about a story. They were going down there was a copper a copper mine and people who were in the group were afraid to get onto the elevator because it was so rickety. And Raj Mahan Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi's grandson, one of his grandchildren, was traveling with this group and my father got into the elevator. and and went down this rickety elevator. I mean I remember seeing a picture of him with this helmet on with the flash with lights. Anyway went down to the elevat down the elevator and Raj Mahan was so impressed with my father's bravery invited to him to India because my father was a good speaker. But what my mother and father notice is like the workers, the the indigenous people who were working in those mines, they weren't eating. What they were what they fed them was cocoa leaves, cocaine. They like like understand the slavery part of of the indigenous people in South America, especially with the Spanish, was was still existing in the sixties. So Marina Crane (20:40.46) in in different par the different third worlds in South America because that was the hub of it. That was the hub of indigenous slavery and how it but also in the sixty the thirteen colonies. So so it it it there is there's that validation like when I was a child and even like I said in terms of black America and and the Freedom March and th this whole systemic racism But but I wanted to say this because there is a stark difference. When you have white people beating up children, it's not it they're not beating them because because they want them to be civilized, they're beating them because they want them to be their slaves. See, and that's the that's the cruelty of of Indian residential school. Can't no ifs, ands, or b buts about it for indigenous people who are fifty years and younger. These places were not good places. You were not even a human being in these Indian residential schools. They were indoctrinating my parents and my grandparents as slaves. Now for me, when I like I said, when I went to Indian residential school, I was bussed into the town. But the grooming was still there. The grooming of like, okay, white is better than brown was still there. And again, too, like we're we're not civilized. The denial of of whatever indigenous people had contributed to the Americas was never taught. And and I'm not angry about that at all. What I'm concerned about is that a lot of people who want to wear those orange shirts and you know, rally around the children that had died are losing the whole concept of exactly how cruel white people were to these children. My parents' age and and people older than me like that are hitting eighty now in nine in two thousand twenty six, they they were basically grooming them to be slaves. Now anything Marina Crane (22:44.12) Anything other than that, after that, was indigenous on Indigenous, because the right to to vote for Indigenous people came out. The you know, like the right to even marry who you wanted to, I think came out in the 70s or the s the eighties. Or like even for women, just understand this for all women. Women couldn't own a credit card or even own a house in the 70s. So the concept of slavery for indigenous people should not be a shock to my listeners. It should be a damn well reality of it. So here's here's one of the one of the fellows who really sparked my interest and he's it says what race was tibula or like there was a woman slave, okay. if I can Sorry. Marina Crane (23:49.71) Marina Crane (23:53.218) So I I wanted to get these three books, Six Women of Salem, The Untold Story of the Accused and Their Accusers in the Salem Witch Trials by Mary Mary Lynn K. Roach. Was published in 2013. Nonfiction. Used used the lives of six specific women. as a microcosm to illuminate the largest crisis of Salem witch trials. Rather than treating the accused the accusers as stock characters, Roach aims to show what was ri actually like to live through the hysteria and how it was impossible to emerge unchanged. The six women, six figures, cross section. Rebecca Nurse, I won't go into her life, Bridget Bishop, Mary English, Ann Put Put Hem Sr. and Mary Warren. Now the wom the person I'm focusing on is Tabou to Tabooba, Taboo T I T U B A, the minister's enslaved woman who was the first to confess to witchcraft. So the book is organized in three sections introduction dedicated to the profiling of the six women. Qu chronological accounts, the month to month narrative of the hearings and trials, often using verbatim testimony. Aftermath covers the end of the proceedings and the colonial authorities eventual stock at the scale in the acquisition over four hundred people and the executions. So The Marina Crane (25:35.724) To to Tibut t Tibutpah, the minister's enslaved woman. She was enslaved household to Samuel Paris, the minister of Salem Village. She was an indigenous Araq woman from Barbados. Her extract origins are debated. Some earlier accounts assume she was African. Okay, so again, this is we're talking about the enslavement of indigenous people. This is like a f like the Salem witch trials. She was not the first person accused. The initial accusations were made by Betty Parris and Abigail Williams against Tabula, Sarah Good and Sarah Osborne. She was, however, the first accuser to confess to witchcraft. Her confession was dramatic and detailed and she described as black man animals fil described as a black man animal philom fill familiars and being possess pressured to hurt the children and it helped fuel the hysteria. She confessed it was her confession was almost certainly coerced during interrogation. Unlike many others, Tip Titbula was not executed. She was jailed for a long time, later released for or sold to cover the jail price, depending on the account, and then disappeared from the historical records. For more precise versions would be Tabula, the enslaved woman, in Samuel Paris's household, likely of indigenous Caribbean origin, who was one of the first three accused and the first to confess to being a witch. Small correction The author Mary Ellen Newit Newwell not Margaret Allen Newell Brethren of By Nature New England in Indians colonists and origins of American slavery by Margaret Allen Newwell, Cornwell University twenty fifteen. It is a scholarly history arguing that Native American slavery was central to early New England, not a minor sidelight to Marina Crane (27:43.05) And what colonial practices of enslaving indigenous people helped lay groundwork for American slavery. Now, when I lived in the States, I had some Native American friends who were from the Carolinas and from the Eastern United States, the Thirteen Colonies, and they denied up and down that our ancestors were never slaves. They said we were our our bloodline, like we just like I again, they denied this connection to slavery. But for me I'm not because because it's evidence in In Indian residential schools. Now that's my argument, that's my theory, that's my opinion. And I have I have like hello, the the the anybody who can deny it this, like really, white supremacy? Proud boys, I I'm just taking a sip of my coffee here. So New Well's key points. New England colonists enslaved native people on a significant scale, especially after wars such as the Pequot War and King Philip's War. Indian slavery predated the coexistence of African slavery in the region. Predates African slavery. Get it? Colonial laws and customs gradually racialized slavery, tying it to outsiders while reinforcing settler authority. So so they they They made a distinction. I guess it had to be proper. The title comes from the idea that colonials was sometimes described Indians as brethren by nature. Okay, so again, this colonial construct creating like there's still slavery, but you know, to make it proper brethren by nature, while simultaneously treating them as enslavable outsiders, showing tension between kinship rhetoric and disposition. Like I mean, we talk about the Indian Act, like kinship rhetoric and disposition. It's evident in what the Br what Canada has done to their indigenous people. I mean, like I like I I lived in the United States. Any Native American that comes into Canada does not last and stay here. They may last a year or two, but but they they when they're here they know what it is to be black because indigenous people in Canada are treated Marina Crane (30:08.706) the same as black people are treated in the United States. I've been saying this forever. The book the book connects new connects local New England practices to the broader Atlantic slave trade and the origins of racial slavery in America. Okay, that's the book. It's not it's not if you're you meant to a okay, let's see, I This is just an opinion here. It says, I don't think that book exists as stated by J D J. Silverman is historical content colonial New England and Native American history, The Chosen of the Damned, does not appear to be known in his biography. So I done some research on another book. His actual books, The Land the The Land is Their Land, the Wampa Pago Indian Plymouth Colony and the Troubled History of Thanksgiving. Two thousand nineteen Thunder Sticks, Firearms and Violent Transformation of Native Americans twenty sixteen. Ninigit Sikum of the Nikanti and the Nagaritz 2014 Unauthorized Red Brethren The B Broader Town and Stockbridge Indians and the Problem of Race in Early America 2010. and Community Among the Wampuman Indians by Martha's Vineyard, sixteen sixteen hundred to eighteen seventy-one, published 2005. So either title, the author, and both are l likely mixed up. The Chosen of the Dam sounds more like fictional rather than Silverman's actual scholarly work. So I wanted to make that because I saw it published as it as like the chosen of the dam was was a legitimate book, but it's not. The other slavery, the uncovered story of the Indian enslavement in the Americas by Andre Ren Redensi, 2016, The Major Work of Atlantic and American History. Now that this is actual. Core argument. Ren Recendes argues that the indigenous slavery in America was massive, long-lasting, and central. Not a minor prelude to African slavery. He estimated that between Marina Crane (32:32.078) Two point five and five million Native Americans were enslaved from the Caribbean through North America between Columbus and the late nineteenth century. Understand this, the nineteenth century. The other slaver refers to many forms of native bondage that often were often not legally labeled slavery. Incumenda parta it's I deb we'll say debit pain pin pin pinage. debit pinage, captivity, forced labor and sales. So it's like they're making them indebted to to to the master. It began with Columbus in the Caribbeans and spread across Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch and English colonies. So when I took American history and they were talking about the most like the five of the five civilized tr conquering races that the Portugu like the Dutch and the Portuguese were the most horrific in torturing of the Native Americans, then the Spanish, the English, and then finally the French. So, you know, all this in terms of slavery. Native slavery was not contained to the colonial period. It persisted in parts of the America into the late eighteen hundreds, even after American slavery was abolished. So that's why I'm talking about Canada and industrial schools. And and and again, understand this too. Oil was discovered in the Alberta when they started these industrial schools. They like we we haven't had how do I put it? Eastern Canada has had a hundred years more indoctrination into this whole concept of slavery and bondage and like you owe the government something or s like that whole Indian Act. Again, Indian Act was in the late eighteen hundreds. The colonial legal system oft denied that Indians could be enslaved in principle by permitting it in practice through war. Just titles, punishment, debt and captivity. So even too, like my grandfat my great grandfather was involved in the Amer like the Indian Wars, like in the Great Lakes, and how like they the like they're they were indebted to the Crown and the Crown, you know, was supposed to give them boatloads of Marina Crane (34:54.562) goods for for their patronage to fight against the Americans. That never happened. The b and again they're talking about the same book. The book challenges the black white binary of the American slavery and shows how shows how native slavery helped build colonial economies and shaped racial ideology. So so the whole notion of industrial schools, Indian residential schools, helped shape colonial economies in Canada and shaped racial ideologies. Like I said, to this day there are still people even within my own family who are ashamed to be indigenous. Okay, and and again, even people who who have been adopted or fostered, this is this is indigenous on indigenous. Okay, that's why I'm saying you gotta look at it historically. In those Indian residential schools it was white people who were beating the bejesus out of children. When you when when you when you look at the whole construct of like the alcohol alcohol was introduced into indigenous people in the sixties. In the sixties, we're not talking the late eighteen hundreds or anything like that. And understand this too. It wasn't until three years ago that the nine Sioux tribes, the the I think there are eight eight Dakota and one Lakota tribes in Canada as well as the Metine Inuit were now classified as indigenous. That's only three years ago in Canada. Okay, so so when when when I'm talking about indigenous on indigenous, the the the ones that were not considered indigenous had the had had the ability to go into bars. Okay, they they they had a little bit more freedom than First Nations because First Nations were still under the guardianship of of the Indian agent. The like even look at our trust fund. Marina Crane (36:58.164) We we don't have access to our our billion dollar trust fund because we're still not considered free. You know, we're we still don't have sovereignty over our children as well. So when we're talking about slavery, like I'm I'm I'm hitting it. I'm trying to hit it right on the bare knuckles here. reception, it is widely praised that and was finalist in the National Book Award for Nonfiction and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in History. It won the Brantford Prize in twenty seventeen. And so so here's when when this was Andrea Rendez, the other the other slavery and Margaret Ellen Newell, brethren of na by nature. Rendel Renc Rencendez writes h hemispheric long duration cis synthesis native slavery across America's From Columbus to the late nineteenth century, arguing that it was massive. Two point five to five million people and central to s American history. Newell writes the regional archival study of early Eng New England, native slavery in the English colonies, arguing it was specific, legally and culturally embedded, and helped shape the origins of American racial slavery. Understand this, okay, when they're talking about racialized slavery. We're talking about witchcraft too, okay? Like like I always say, you know, we can deal with racism, but it morphs into something. It morphs into another narrative. And it and it it's interesting to see how it how it shapes the way people perceive things. Even and that's why like with this podcast, whatever is morphing in from this destructive behavior of white people beating the bejesus out of children and killing them has morphed into like indigenous on indigenous and young people who who've never talked to their grandparents, who've never, you know, legally sat and listened to these horrific stories of those people who are now in their late seventies and who passed away. Like I I like I said, I'm seventy four. I took care of my late mother and I and I listened to my aunts. I've listened to people talk about these Marina Crane (39:24.334) horrific stories. So I so for me abvocating there is a difference. You did the somebody just can't yeah my relative was an Indian residential school. Was okay but it like I said to that fellow on on Friday, I said it's indigenous on indigenous. If your father was an alcoholic and beat the bejesus out of you because your father was in Indian residential school, that is indigenous on indigenous. I know. I've seen it Like I talk about my my parents. Okay, so both challenge the invisibility of native slavery. Neither treats indigenous bondage as minor curiosity or temporary wartime practice. Both insist it was widespread economic economically important and strategically embed embedded in colonial societies. Both reject the black white binary. They show The American slavery cannot be understood only as American slavery in the plantation south. Native slavery coexisted with pre precedent and shaped African slavery. So that's important. Like I said, a lot of Native Americans in the United States are in denial of this because it wasn't in curriculum. Like I said, I I went to I lived in Utah amongst Native Americans who were Mormonized, you know, and and again. this this a shame to be indigenous and the only pride was like, we were never slaves. And yet we were. And it's still embedded in colonial constructs, especially in Canada. Okay, 'cause Canada, like, what the hell? Okay, both authors emphasize legal and customary forms of coercion. Sl slavery was often called slavery. It appears slavery was not often called slavery. That's why I want to make it make a distinction when it comes to indigenous people in Canada and the United States, of course. It appeared as captivity debit peonage peonage, forced labor, household servitude. Again, if you're dark skinned indigenous and you were in these industri you were in these residential schools, you were you were meant to work in the fields. My aunties and my mom worked in the fields. I worked in the fields Marina Crane (41:45.942) at Indian the Indian residential school, even though I was bust into the city t bust into little town to go to school, I was still working like in the fields. Understand this. La forced labor, household servitude, just war, enslavement and punishment both show how law and customs made native bondage possible while often denying it in principle. See? And that's why the argument is when I When September thirti thirtieth, when they have Orange you know, Indian residential school like truth and reconciliation, I'm going, No, you gotta understand they're denying this in principle. They're denying the slavery, the whole concept of the economics of the United States and Canada based on the th this impetus, this this this this like it captivity debit forced labor. Household household servitude. Industrial school Indian residential schools. I know it. I saw it within my own my own parents. Okay, the book both stressed racialization and colonial power. Native slavery helped define who outside the settler community, therefore enslavement. Both connect bondage and disp dispossession, war and colonial authority. So when I talk about the caste system Or even the caste, the community, the caste system under the Indian Act, like the way the women are caste in terms of marriage, childbirth, the p their place in society within First Nations and you wouldn't Metis communities. We're t we're talking about that that bondage of possession, the outsider. My when my mother married into Sutina, like most women who are marrying into First Nations, she was classified as an outsider. So this whole notion is validation, like like a racialization and c a construct of colonial power. It's a settler community, and it has to do with enslavement. Both both give Native people agency. Native people were not passive victims. They negotiated, resisted, fled, appealed to courts, formed kinship networks and survived. Of course, that's why I talk about Marina Crane (44:13.912) the Oshati Shakoi, the seven council fires of the S great the Sioux nation. That's why I talk about like there were not we were not passive victims. There were treaties that were negotiated. Resistance fled fled. Like I still protest I was protesting in the lady when I was in my early twenties and appeals to the courts. Like we're still doing that. Like even bill all these bills that are being passed in legislation. form kinship networks, like even how in it as indigenous communities in in Western Canada, how we we formed kinship networks and and survived and we still do because we have that network of of the construct of who was related to who and which r Indian residential school, you know, people went to school. So there there is a there is a d I I wanna make a distinction between like I said the The Indian residential school, whether or not it was indigenous on indigenous, white on indigenous children, it was still horrific. But I'm using the construct to demonstrate in slavery slavery, the whole notion of slavery. So recendus recend like recendus, the slavery h hemo hemospheric Colombian, Caribbean, Mexico Mexican, Spanish, American, Portuguese, American, French, Dutch, Colonial, US. dating from fourteen ninety two to the nineteenth century, estimated two to five million native enslavement. The broad a very broad echometri media, it's in French, captivity, forced labor sales, native slavery was massive, persistent. and central across the Americas not to pre not a prelude to African slavery. Marina Crane (46:13.1) So the Royal prohi pro prohibits versus practice, coexistence of parallel American slavery, sometimes overlaps, sometimes distinct. it's just Newell supplies the English colonial case that Rendus hemispheric synthesis can only sketch. Recendus supplies a big framework that makes Newell's New England binding look like one part of the continent wide system. Together they show that native slavery was not an an an anomaly, but a legal, economic, and racial project across the empires. And and so when we're you know saying, the Indian Act, we have to use that as a living document that enslavement is still still exists. This is a remnant of colonial construct. New well is stronger. The English legal, cultural, household slavery. and the origin of racial slavery in British America. So that's why I'm saying he it's all proper, you know, like cheese. They're household slaves. They're they're white skinned. They're how like again, they're they're gonna be the master's slave in the household while dark skinned people will work in the fields. and I've I've seen it my whole life. Like I like I said, I I have a sister I'm seventy four, she's seventy three. We grew up like twins. She can pass for a white woman and she and she's the same sh ashamed to be indigenous. I haven't seen her like I haven't like she's no longer like I can't identify as a sister 'cause we haven't talked as much in fifty years. And that's just one construct in one family, my family. So I'm not I'm not like really I've been shunned from my family. You can ask anybody who's known me for decades You know, the fact that I'm not Mormon and I'm still being shunned by my family is is is typical of this whole proper what is proper. So Rencendas is stronger on scale, longevity, Spanish liberation systems and the persistence of native bondage after American slavery prohibitions. Marina Crane (48:32.93) Biggest tension in definition and scale Rendens Rescenden's bonds broad definition includes debit patri peonage, coer coerced labor, lets him claim millions of Native slaves, but critics may not say it risks conflating different labor regimes. Newwell's narrative originally focuses on more precision but less hemispheric scale. So Rendez equals breadth and long duration, Newell. depth and legal cultural sp perspective. The bottom line though is Rendel Rendensen Recendes tells you big and long lasting the other slavery while Newell tells you how it worked in one critical English colonial setting a and why it matters for the origins of American slavery. They are complementary of each other, com competing Like I said It's one it's one thing for me to you know like to to talk about these things but you know it's it's embedded. It's so embedded. so hold on here. To deny the severity of what existed is to deny even what exists today. You know, the Indian Act is still very much there. So hold on here, I'm just this whole construct of of Like it it's important that like this this is a young woman who who like is a s in terms of what they call social media. So you know like you have to like it's important. When I was younger we didn't have we we didn't have social media. like in tur like I really wanted to read as much as I could. And so when my niece was born I got her a leapfrog and and so at the early age, like three years old, two years old, like by the time like she was reading. She was reading and and so I I you know really commend all these young people who are on social media, who are educated, who are talking and creating narrative. Marina Crane (50:50.542) So let's see if I can get this here. Marina Crane (51:00.272) I know what happened. Marina Crane (51:06.542) Here we go. To deny the severity of what existed is to deny even what exists today. You know, the Indian Act is still very much there. You know, and they say, well, we were developing schools I am the only painter in the family. Sorry. Marina Crane (51:32.684) Sorry, I just I don't know how I don't know why that happens to me. I try to I'll I'll like I'm really trying to to let you again I may laugh but but the reality of it is like my technical skills aren't that good. I I'm the first to admit it. But let's let's try it again 'cause 'cause I really think like this young woman really needs to be heard when it comes to Let's see here. Marina Crane (52:24.546) Sorry. Marina Crane (52:38.344) Ugh, well we'll see what happens here. Let's try this one. Marina Crane (52:54.816) of what existed is to deny even what exists today. You know, the Indian Act is still very much there. You know, and they say, well we were developing schools and we were trying to do positive that's that's not what happened. We're talking about oppressive legislation. We're talking about a Canadian government that didn't want our people speaking Marina Crane (53:14.317) I took it Marina Crane (53:18.58) things were systemically going on while our children were being forcibly removed from their homes. So they were taking the core family dynamics, breaking it apart, you know, the wide s the widespread residential school system, and then even the the history saying like show me the proof, show me the proof while the Canadian government was actively ensuring that that documentation wasn't as readily available as it should have been. So those are the types of thing that really frustrate me around these types of of of days. To deny the severity of what existed is to deny even what existed Today. You know, the Indian Act is still very much there. You know, and they say, well, we were developing schools and we were trying to do positive. That's that's not what happened. We're talking about oppressive legislation. We're talking about a Canadian government that didn't want our people speaking their language, practicing ceremony, powwow dancing, all of those things. The past system, you can't leave your community. All of those things were systemically going on while our children were being forcibly removed from their homes. So they were taking the core family dynamics, breaking it apart. You know, the wide scoop the widespread residential. school system and then even the the history saying like show me the proof, show me the proof while the Canadian government was actively ensuring that that documentation wasn't as readily available as it should have been. So those are the types of thing that really frustrate me around these types of of of days. To deny the severity of what existed is to the So like I said it's it's I'm I'm grateful that there are young people who are who are putting these things forward, like the that are ta yeah, creating this narrative because it it is important that like like there's no fawning. She's not fawning and, you know, trying to make things look nice and all that. She's telling the truth and I think a a lot of times when when there's shame and guilt involved and how we react or don't react to it, it it it does have a significant impact on us. But the the more we practice it and the more we understand it, hopefully the better off we all are as human beings. Like I said, it it's one thing that people argue with me and I'm going, No, I know my parents, I know my grandparents, I know myself. Marina Crane (55:37.854) I I I never had a white person beat me up as a child. I haven't. But but I am around people my age or who've lived in isolated communities who had white people beat them up as children. And and it does leave a lasting impact on on a child. So so when I talk about these things, I'm not talking about like that I that you know, that I I have all this this bitterness and anger. Because see, bitterness and anger isn't the same as like some racist, you know, calling me down as a a monster or a squaw or like a bitch or you know, really horrific language. I mean I could I have a vulgar I can I have a vulgar mouth too. Okay, so it's not I'm not I'm not saying that I'm I'm immune to it. I'm I'm just saying there is a difference. I have nothing nothing to there's no shame or guilt or or no reason to to to belittle white people, you know, for what they did to me. No, that like but I'm saying it exists it exists and and if it's persistent and you think of it in terms of mythologizing or glorifying, then then you really have to you know, you really need to take a look. I mean look at look at what they did with Nathan Chasenhorse. You know, the the fellow, I mean, you they just gravitated to him and that's what I'm saying. A lot of people gravitate to the survivors of Indian residential school not realizing like they're they're they're they've been hurt. They're still healing. And and and whether or not they're in denial that they will never heal, that that's not up to you. Marina Crane (57:27.948) what's up to you is for you to pi show some respect, even even if they don't know what respect is, it it's okay because it's not their fault. That it was not their fault that a white person beat the bejezus out of them. But for me, when I have other indigenous people placating other indigenous people for hurting them, then that's when it becomes an issue for me. Because y what people do is unforgivable. What our own people do to our children is unforgivable. We've had this happen so many times since the beginning, like five hundred years, slavery, everything. We've had it. We we ought to do Okay, here's the raw materials for the British textile mills in England that powered the Industrial Revolution. When British Prime Minister David Cameron visited Jamaica in the same year the final loan payment was made, he told Caribbean people they should simply move on. The massive wealth generated by the slave trade did not disappear. It was carefully invested and institutionalized. It is permanently baked into the physical architecture of London, university endowments, top financial portfolios, and state infrastructure. The British slave trade brought enslaved Africans. To Jamestown in 1619 and were classified as cargo in a system the British Crown built and ran. Virginia was a British colony, and the Southern Plundation system used the exact same legal frameworks and economic logic Britain developed in the Caribbean. American slavery was a direct British import. It was developed, scaled, and legally codified under the Crown long before American independence and was inherited by the new republic. When modern Americans argue about the legacy of slavery, reparations, or the 1619 project, they're arguing about the consequences of A system Britain built. Yet Britain gracefully participates in global conversations as a detached observer rather than the original architect. The plantation template, developed in Ireland, exported to Virginia, applied in Jamaica, and refined in the Caribbean, remains the core blueprint of modern extraction. Follow along for part 14. See, and that's coming from see what is her handle? Marina Crane (59:38.936) British every single ship carrying enslaved people across the Atlantic was fully insured by the Llo Lloyds of London. The cargo being insured by was Africa's Africans. If they died in transit, roughly four fifteen percent of them was an insurance policy. So and again, this is this this is Lisa period P-O-H-O-V-I-C-H. And and that's why I'm saying it's all tied in with British. The the whole slavery, the like the the treaties, everything. And and for the English people to look at it as the outsider, like it's the outside, or even like the i even when it's coming to First Nations and people who come into the community are considered outsiders, the whole notion of of how how we r understand what slavery is and the coercion of it and and even if we don't understand like the analysis of it, the analysis of it is is women and children being the most vulnerable. And and that's why like for for me when when it comes to understanding how people perceive indigenous women and how we as indigenous women either we enable or we we have the tenacity to say no I will not participate in this. And and that's why like like for for me like when they say th the most narcissistic people are women and and for an indigenous woman to have carry so much shame just because of the misunderstanding or the lack of analysis so that you're crowing and grooming so that you're doing everything for for people or society to look at you as if you're the perfect woman. You you you you do not sin you're or if you've sinned you've repented and and by golly Marina Crane (01:01:45.944) By G, you know, by any means you're gonna hold that $100,000 job till the day you die because that's a confirmation that you're a good woman. At the expense of other women. Understand this. That's why, like for me, respect, you know, I I didn't really understand it, but then when I I'm around men who respect me. I'm I'm really grateful. I'm really grateful and I think and I hope creator and grandfathers and grandmothers continue to guide me. Because the notion that when a woman chooses to not have ch not marry or or even to marry an indigenous man the repercussions if you so much as are in f in unfaithful to your husband, separate or hook up with a married man, the consequences to that are astronomical. I mean you might be in denial of it, but you know, I've met e enough women and l again too, like when I was sexually active in my early twenties You know, I never questioned if the if the guy was married or not. You know, I just assumed they were single and but then I had notions that they might have been married. But I never carried on an affair, like I never I never repeated my my sexual fling with them. so but but what I'm trying to say is that when women have affairs with married men, and I know women are going to be like look listening to my podcast and going, What the hell is she talking about? You know, we don't even think that the way we think is self-defeating. And and I use one of my relatives an ex as an example. She had an affair for over a decade. and and Marina Crane (01:03:42.282) again, narcissist, you know, I'm she her claim is like I'm educated, I'm I'm good mother, her her children are in their forties. You know, and and most of the my childhood friends too, who are narcissists who are holding on to their jobs 'cause their forty year old children depend on them. They're codependent. And I I can't comprehend that. I just can't. Because I've worked my whole life. I was talking to my sister. I said, even when I was fifteen I was a site I was a candy striper at a at a a a a home for children on the weekends. And so I I I I think it's just the nature of this hold, you know, working hard out in the fields 'cause my my mother was like that. She worked out in she worked hard in the fields. And but the the notion like everything I've ever done I've had to pay for myself. But but when you choose to have children and you're a single parent and you're lonely, it it's very tempting to have an affair with a married man. The consequences though is that once you finish having an affair with a married man, the the notion of the other woman, the woman who actually he was married to, is such a powerful indicator. And as an example, like I said, one of my relatives had an affair with a married man for over a decade, I think seventeen years and and then she quit her job. the chief that she was working for was twenty five years old, like a, you know, just dynamic young woman who accomplished a lot. The the rel the lady who had the affair decades later she can't see anything good about a twenty five year old chief. Marina Crane (01:05:30.594) And then she thinks she's going to get a job with another community where the woman is chief as well, but she has nothing good to say about that female chief. And even for me, too, like nothing good to say about me, you know, even coaching me to kill myself. Like that to the extreme, like I'm saying hello in terms of mental health. How do you see women, especially women who are educated, who are succeeding, who are striving and thriving? That's the consequence. That's the consequence of of looking at the the other woman because whether or not you don't understand the healing process, any woman can never stand up to who you believe you are as a narcissist. The world revolves around you, nothing else matters. And other women don't matter. That's why it's a danger, because as indigenous women, we we have to we have to be more aware of the consequences of how we think and how we treat other women. Because there are children who are depending on us. And again too, you know, even even the notion of like trying to do what you can, it's it's a it's disheartening to know Like I I tried and I've gone to school, got an education, and and then I knowing that there were a hundred and fifty graduates from university and not one was hired by a white company. So so again, systemic racism and how indigenous people have to and we need to know that it's our own economic development that our young people are depending on. We you know, we need to break through this whole caste system or ca class Marina Crane (01:07:15.922) and also like like you know, tell our narrative, work do what we can to create economic stability and help our young people 'cause no one's gonna do it. No one is gonna do it. Nobody has ever done it and like I said, history that's the way history is. Just the way they look at indigenous people. Anyway, I wanted to say that. I wanted to I wanted to put these things down because it is important. I think a lot of times my grandparents and everybody used to just like, you know, just everybody loves the royal family. I don't. You know, it's just the whole notion of of the like the slavery and let's see here. That sentence white So anyway I'll leave it at that. I'ma say this one time. I think fascism and far right authoritarianism in different forms also have an embodied politics. Is that it's built around an extremely closed-ended idea of gender and sexuality. That the masculinity that's that's brought out there is a very militarized masculinity. You see it with Pete Hockstra the United States, no, it's Heggseth, sorry. Pete Hockstra is the Canadian ambassador. Heggseth in in the American military, in the idea that the American military needs to be measured for its masculinity. And it's a highly racialized sense of a national masculinity that is at the core of this mobilization, which also then Has particular versions of maternal femininity associated with it. And so, and it's extremely closed-ended. And anything that threatens that very narrow sense of what masculinity is is seen as the enemy. And so there's a racialized sense of who the enemy is because that masculinity is very much a racialized national masculinity. And so you see the anti-migrant attacks, the anti-indigenous attacks, and not only political, but literally attacking people in the street. Marina Crane (01:09:20.832) You also see the gender, the anti-transness, which is this is fucking with gender, and we can't have that, because gender is fundamental to what to the mobilizing dynamic, the desire that is is built to to to produce the fascist crowd. I think fascism and far-right authoritarianism in different forms. also have an embodied politics is that it's built around an extremely closed-ended idea of gender and sexuality. That the masculinity that's that's brought out there is a very militarized masculinity. You see it with Pete Hockstra in the United States no Heggseth, sorry Hockstra is the Canadian ambassador Heggseth in in the American military in the idea that the American military needs to be measured for its masculinity. And it's a highly racialized sense of a national masculinity that is at the core of this mobilization, which also then has particular versions of maternal femininity associated with it. And so, and it's extremely closed-ended. And anything that threatens that very narrow sense of what masculinity is, is seen as the enemy. And so there's a racialized sense of who the enemy is because that masculinity is very much a racialized national masculinity. and so you see the anti-migrant attacks, the anti-indigenous attacks, and not only political, but literally attacking people in the street. but you also see the gendered, the anti-transness, which is this is. is fucking with gender and we can't have that because gender is fundamental to what to to the mobilizing dynamic the the desire that is is built to to to produce the fascist crowd i think so that is black underscore racialized racial radical sorry it's at shears dot al a n Marina Crane (01:11:24.2) at Shears S-E-A-R-S dot Allen. It says it spe speaks about different embodied political and eroticism, talks about liberal fascism and social eroticism embedded in politics. And like that's like I I know I use eroticism erotica or or limerence like all all this construct in in just the the the politics the embodiment of politics. And and so I like I'm I'm talking about in terms of indigenous indigenality and and how like just having the narrative it like like like I s I was mentioning it it it amazes me that that when you're talking about feminism and then when you're having a conversation and you realize, my goodness, we have all these things in common, but it it it's not even it's not even the notion that there we have those differences. It's it's just the reality that we're sort of like reflecting on each other and going, Okay, we're we're at the same baseline. We're still s trying to deal with what's actually happening in in real time in the real world. I I I just find a lot of these a lot of these things that I do do manage to to find and and put in my put in my in whatever I I can do in terms of my podcast. I I hope it's important. I hope it's enough. to h to help people like really here here's one. If it comes through, don't know if it'll come through. Marina Crane (01:13:23.352) My marital status is single. But there's a man who's not my man. But because of him there's no other man in my life. It's unclear, but very interesting. Technically I'm available, but emotionally that position has already been filled by someone who never officially applied for it. We're not together, but somehow I still consider him before entertaining anyone else. And that's the confusing part. He didn't ask me to wait. There's no label, no commitment. Yet there's this invisible loyalty. I can't seem to switch off. And at this point Someone new could come into my life with every quality I once thought I wanted. And still s something inside me would hesitate to choose him because a a part of my heart is still emotionally attached to someone who never truly became mine. And maybe that is the cruelest part of an undefined connection. There is no relationship to hold on to, but somehow there is still something to to grieve. My marital status is single? See something to grieve and I think that's the whole nature of life, because like I said, I haven't been sexually active in fifty years and but yet men have come into my life and then they leave. And so it it's like this is C H E R A N N E underscore Mazing O five. Come here. So but there's a Yeah, so it's life is really interesting in the sense of like who who you find online and and just the things that you know make sense. Purity culture. Marina Crane (01:15:25.524) Steroids in Mormonism where these unequal gender roles that women are told that they don't own their bodies and their dads and their husbands are responsible for their bodies. For example a female in the in the Mormon church can't make a decision without approval from a male. There you can't make a decision without approval. You have to have a man approve it. my wife, for example, had some medical issues. the when our second son was born, two of her doctors said you because of your medical issues you should stop having children. And she and her doctors were comfortable with her both her and I felt we needed to get permission from God from and from our our bishop in order to have that and that that surgery. And as a church employee, we had to jump through hoops because their policy literally said as a church employee, you can't have elective surgery t without after having five kids. You she had to have five kids first. So her doctor had to write a letter to say, please give my patient, my female patient, permission to have this necessary surgery. And it's all because she was female. Purity culture on steroids in Mormonism, where these unequal gender roles that women are told that they don't own their bodies, and their dads and their husbands are responsible for their bodies. A female in the in the Mormon church can't make a decision without approval from a male. You can't make a decision without approval. You have to have a man approve it. my wife, for example, had some medical So I put that in there because like I said, people say, you were Mormon, and I'm going Yes. Studied it. Never dated a Mormon man. but I'm shunned by my family. And so yeah, I'm really critical about the Indian Act and about the caste system of indigenous women and how society tr looks at at Indigenous women and again the whole construct of creating a false purity culture and you know, for the instability or the vulnerability of it, that somebody like Nathan Chase, of course, could come in and create and construct purity culture for for for you know, girl children. Marina Crane (01:17:34.903) You know, indoctrinating children into a purity culture he's creating for his own use to sexually abuse these children. And and again, indigenous on indigenous, this purity culture. Why? Because you had white people beating the bejesus out of indigenous kids and they created a purity culture within those Indian residential schools, those industrial schools. So it's all a part of a construct in enslaving people. A coercion. Control. Anyway, I hope that it makes some sort of sense in connecting all the dots because I sometimes I just find life a little bit overwhelming, but at the same time too satisfying in that there there is some sense in logic because even though I'm indigenous, I know I have some connection with other people that are experiencing things in life that that are just You know, the cost of living. The you know, like like you you get an education and there's nothing for you. Like certain commonalities and yet you know, we we we strive, we strive. So we enjoy today, it's Sunday and I'm just grateful that I've come so far in in understanding my my own sexuality, my own ability and not ability. 'Cause it it's like I said, it there's no magic wand. You can't shut it off. It's it just persists. And and with that I hope you have a good day and any questions, like you know, I'm going to be having a conversation with two artists on Tuesday. And it's gonna be surrounded in regards to water. And within the Sioux culture, again, this whole what do they call it when everybody gravitates to homog not homogenous, homogeneous or pan pan indigenous. There are a lot of things that are pan indigenous and it's not because we wanted it that way, it just came out that way. Marina Crane (01:19:53.181) you know, because of the misinterpretation or people just wanting to clump all indigenous people as one as one way of thinking. Which I I hope and understand that people I've met you know realize no, Marina Crane is just one indigenous person with her point of view doesn't mean that all other people indigenous people think the way I do. Definitely not. It's kinda scary. But for Halloween, think about it. That's what I put the Salem witch trials and there was an indigenous woman who confessed to being a witch Understand this too. She's a r sh she was origin she's originally indigenous from the Caribbeans. And understand when they did when they were enslaving indigenous people, they sent them into the Caribbeans and into South America. And and this whole enslavement of indigenous people took place in South America with the Portuguese. The Portuguese and Dutch and Spanish were the most horrific colo like we'll call it the of the civilized of the clo of the people coming in from Europe, how they brutalized the indigenous people. And, you know, just the to be ashamed to be indigenous. I had broommates from South America when I lived in the States. that, you know, we're so proud to be, you know, like they're like they're Spanish. They're not indigenous. And I'm going, my goodness. You know, and and just the fact like when my parents went and the pictures they had of all these thousands of indigenous people just sitting listening and they all spoke Spanish. You know, just the enslavement, the poverty. They had to eat cocoa leaves. And even even traveling to some of the hotels where they were just if they were just gross. Marina Crane (01:21:40.121) Dirty, filthy, and the 250 people they were traveling with had to go into the kitchens and clean them. Just the and that's just in the sixties. Okay, so when I talk about things that, you know, how society is today and what we think is happening, when when the world is so much smaller, and even in India, like the hygiene or the lack of hygiene practices. and then we come into here in in Calgary and you have like elderly people in nursing homes, the women who are scared because, you know, they want their own privacy, but then you have these these elderly men seeking seeking some sort of physical, you know, like the wanting to get sexually aroused and have sexual relations with with the their s the senior women. I d Like it my parents used to say, It ain't over till you're six feet underground and it's true. It ain't over till you're six feet underground, but it's it's the I the I it's the notion that however we live decade by decade and how we take care of ourselves in terms of our mental health, our sexuality, plays a big, big difference when you're older. you know, it's it's I mean I I kid you not. I didn't even know you could watch porn until during the pandemic. And over the weekend when I was talking to a another senior woman, she says she says, I didn't know my granddaughter could have access to porn when I sh when I have her use my phone. She says, How do I check? And I and I'm just like, my goodness the pervasiveness of our young people, like children who have access to media, which I only had access to like three, four years ago. You know, so it Marina Crane (01:23:36.111) Like the whole notion of the podcast, I mean like how naive am I. How naive am I? But yet I'm not. I mean I started doing computers when I was in the s in in in the seventies and the eighties. Like it's you know, it even like people say, you do a a podcast at your age? I'm going, Yes. I mean it's not scientific. I'm I still have technical problems. But anyway, enjoy Satur enjoy your Sunday. Halloween's coming up and like I said, witch hunts and silencing women morphs morphs into something. And look at what it morphed into. Halloween. Just amazes me. We'll see what happens in another what, hundred years when it comes to what happens this in this this century and what it morphs into.