It is a critique of respect, accountability, and authenticity

Thank you for sharing this podcast transcript. A few core themes stand out very clearly. What I hear at the center of your reflection This is not simply a complaint about a retreat. It is a critique of respect, accountability, and authenticity. You describe feeling that: Elders were invited but not meaningfully included in discussions. A serious safety incident involving a vape and a youth was not handled with sufficient transparency or accountability. Female elders, particularly Indigenous women, were treated with less respect than male elders. Ceremony and cultural practices were being highlighted, but not always accompanied by the deeper analysis, reflection, and conflict resolution that give them meaning. The organization emphasized Indigenous symbolism while overlooking the expertise of Indigenous professionals, scholars, youth leaders, and community members. Youth elders themselves may not be receiving enough support, supervision, or mentorship. Your distinction between ceremony and analysis One of the strongest ideas throughout the podcast is your repeated framework: Read -> Comprehend -> Analyze You argue that ceremony alone is not enough. A ritual, story, or teaching acquires meaning when people examine: what happened, why it happened, what emotions are present, what lessons can be learned, and how healing or accountability can occur. In your view, the retreat focused heavily on symbolic acts while avoiding difficult conversations about conflict, responsibility, and power. Trauma and leadership Another important thread is your observation that people can become respected cultural leaders while still carrying unresolved trauma. You are not dismissing the elders you discuss. In fact, you repeatedly acknowledge their contributions. Your concern is that organizations may celebrate survivors' stories without recognizing how trauma continues to shape perspectives and leadership styles. That is a nuanced point. You are asking whether organizations are capable of supporting both cultural knowledge and emotional healing at the same time. Indigenous identity and reconnection You also spend considerable time discussing identity. A theme throughout the transcript is that many Indigenous people are reconnecting with culture after generations of disruption caused by residential schools, day schools, and assimilation policies. You highlight that: not speaking a language does not make someone less Indigenous; cultural disconnection often results from historical forces, not personal failure; reconnection is a lifelong process; and Indigenous people experience that process differently based on family history, education, location, and personal experiences. Respect Perhaps the most emotional theme in the transcript is respect. You return to the idea several times: Respect is not just a word. It is something that must be experienced. You describe moments where you felt unseen despite years of service, experience, education, and commitment. For you, the cabin assignment, honorarium confusion, exclusion from conversations, and lack of acknowledgement at the end of the retreat became symbols of a larger pattern. Strengths of the podcast The strongest parts are: Personal storytelling. Connections between individual experiences and broader social issues. Reflection on trauma, healing, community, and accountability. Your willingness to critique both Indigenous and non-Indigenous institutions. The transcript feels less like a report and more like a personal testimony from someone drawing on decades of experience working with youth, education, mental health, and community programs. One observation The podcast covers many interconnected topics: the retreat, youth safety, elder treatment, residential school trauma, Indigenous identity, trafficking, systemic racism, ceremony, respect, feminism, and community development. Because there are so many important subjects, listeners may sometimes lose sight of your central argument. If your goal is maximum impact, you might consider organizing the story around a single central question such as: "What does genuine respect for Indigenous youth and elders actually look like?" Then connect each example back to that question. Overall, what comes through most strongly is your conviction that programs serving Indigenous youth must be built on more than good intentions. They require accountability, meaningful inclusion of elders, support for youth workers, and a willingness to examine difficult truths rather than only celebrate symbols.

Marina Crane (00:01.432) Good morning, October twenty second. Hello, Darcy Marie and Wednesday. And any other people who listen, I really appreciate the fact that I have an audience. However, I know my worth. So this podcast is gonna have be total narrative of an experience that I had in the past week. And I just to give you some background information about this program I'm going to be talking about. It's a nonprofit organization that gears to indigenous urban youth. Now, my history is like I'm 74 and in my twenties, like I was considered like a youth elder. So throughout my whole life I've been involved in youth development programs. to the to the point where even when I was thirty I worked for the Utah State Hospital with high risk suicide girls. And and it sort of gave me the catalyst to study psychology and human behavior and childhood development as well. Not that I've ever had children, but I was a foster parent and I did need to take courses. mind you th that's another that's another podcast in itself. The reason I'm doing this podcast is I'm critiquing this retreat that I was invited to participate in. Now, understand this. this organization I've been faithful to and supporting for say the past four years. And the majority of times when they invite elders like myself like to pray and to be bear witness to the youth who are participating or even adding my two cents which usually is quite a long narrative to begin with. Now the majority of times at these meetings I'm I've seen other elders come but I've been consistently been there like say every month or every second month when they have these meetings. Marina Crane (02:03.852) So I understand the program quite well, and it's it's they wanted to do a parallel with indigenous culture and and a European culture from Iceland that was just geared to youth. And a lot of programs adopt it because it has to do with like addiction of youth. So they so they hire youth elders, and the youth elders oversee, or how would I put it to participate or engage with the teenagers like in junior high and high school. So again, like I said, I don't know if the organizers knew just how my whole life story in terms of working with youth. And so let me put it this way. There's always been boundaries, like when I'm hired, there's boundaries that and ethical things that I've had to do. So one would be like they just what you can go and go to and get marijuana and and have a vape pen and toke up with the vape pen. So an incident happened over the weekend and and one of the youth elders, and we're saying these youth elders are anywhere from twenty to twenty-five, one of them brought vape to to the camp and and one of the young people, I don't know if they're fifteen or sixteen, took it and smoked it. Now I don't know the particulars, but the reality of it is like if th and I'm using this as an example because I've talked to other people who are not indigenous and I said, if this were a white camp instead of an indigenous camp, I said that youth elder would have been disciplined, that youth elder would have been suspended, like because really that's an illegal substance if you're underage. Just because it's legal for for people to buy it, you're an adult, you're a youth elder from twenty to twenty-five. You're responsible for the drug you're you're taking. Now last summer, this past summer, one of my relatives' granddaughter Marina Crane (04:07.866) did have took a vape and OD'd on it. Like she they had to call an ambulance and sh they took her to the emergency. And the relative was so upset, wanted the tribal police to charge the adult who who had this vape pen. Now in this camp over the weekend, they just called the the child's mother to come and pick up the child and they they said, well we're leaving it up to the the youth elders to deal with it. See and the thing is like why? There there were a whole bunch of other staff there. Okay, we got social workers, we got, you know, people with degrees and who've worked with these programs for years. Like and they work there. I'm just a I'm just a an elder. I shouldn't say just. I'm I d I I'm not there all every day eight twenty fours like eight eight hours a day. I'm not. But but I do think there is some responsibility that needs to be taken by the organizing organization. Hiring and overseeing this youth program, especially when it's geared to Indigenous youth. We have 40,000 Indigenous people in the city of Calgary. And so you can imagine the agencies that are out there. Now understand this: an hour east of Calgary, there is a tribe that has, I think, 10 to 14,000 children who are in foster care. Now I stress these things because I talk about sovereignty that we don't have sovereignty over our children because of economic development. Now, even that. too this past year, 150 graduates that were indigenous graduated from university with degrees. And not one of the 150 students were ever hired by white people. Now in Soutina we have economic development. So we hire our youth and we pay them good. And as they're working and paying on the job, they're also going to school. For example, my niece is getting her PhD in linguistics. That's just one of the examples. There are many more young people in Sutina who are going who are sorry, who are supported by our leadership. Because the bottom line is is as Indigenous people we need to hire our youth because obviously white people aren't going to hire them. Now this organization is nonprofit and it's a white organization that's hired Indigenous people. Marina Crane (06:29.34) that being said, they also appear to not be too open minded about hiring two spirited youth to to be youth elders, which again is a bit disheartening because the head guy who who's indigenous from Saskatchewan, I sat down with him and I said, In this camp, this retreat, you you oughta have you could have invited two spirited artists, like musicians, like people who could interact with with the youth. I said, because the realities of What's out there, the harsh reality of systemic racism is is not a fairy tale. It's not a Disneyland, you know, Pocahontas Princess like life happily ever after type of fairy tale. I said the the hardcore of of systemic racism is so profound that it's disappointing when you have youth who are encouraged to get a degree and have once they have a degree, there's nothing. Nothing for them. So and it's the same thing like in terms like I say, if you're a social worker or a a therapist or an academic with who's who's who wears their skin, it's really difficult to have a psychology paper published by the Psychology Association of Canada that you'd have to go to the United States and get it published. So we're talking about like this colonial construct. And that's that's what's so deep into this retreat is because part of there were there were I think five elders. w one of the elders was a couple, a man and a woman. And the fellow is like a few a few years older than my my older brother. so he's probably gonna be turning eighty next year. And the and so and his wife is a little younger. Now the the wife has an honorary PhD. given out by the University of Calgary. Another elder male who is seventy-nine also has an honorary PhD in linguistics, given out by the University of Calgary. Now there's also three other elders, including myself, female. So what's what is the point that I'm getting at? Well I I have said before when people invite me to when people invite me to to come to the meetings and they Marina Crane (08:47.106) g you know, offer me tobacco to come and and say a prayer, I will go, but I I've also said too that a lot of the a lot of the times there are people peop young people who who hate indigenous women. Now they'll project it on me without even knowing me with their attitude and and people have witnessed this. And I have said when I go into spaces like this, I expect you to protect me. Now So what does it have to do with this retreat? Well again too, the majority of the elders that went one of the one with the p the one with the PhD that wasn't there with his wife, We the the program has been after him for the past two, three years to come to these programs as I as an elder and and this is the first time he's shown up, like with the youth. Now, they had youth elders at each of the various tables and and they monopolized everything. So the critique for me was, well, the organizers should have shoulda woulda coulda taken the youth elders and the elders prior to the retreat and had a discussion about what is to be expected in this retreat. retreat because the youth elders totally took charge over the conversation at the tables without including the elders. And even then I felt like I was being policed. So the reality of of it also too is they booked this retreat. So they put the youth in a really nice like like a cabin, you know, rent it was just newly constructed cabin. And the staff, they put them in a you know, fairly nice cabin. But the elders, including myself, were put in a old dingy, smelly cabin. I like my my asthma and everything just acted up. It was like I I struggled. Marina Crane (10:38.049) But the the struggle was more than that. It was the disrespect that I felt from the organizers, despite the fact that out of all the elders that were invited, I was the only one consistently who's been showing up every other month or every month to their meetings for the past four years. And yet what do they do with the male elders or the people who have these honorary PhDs? Like they they gave them their checks on Friday evening. The other female elders, including myself, at the end of the retreat, I asked where if where the honorarium was, and they said, it's deposited into the account. And I said, I checked my my bank account and there's nothing. And they said, Well, it'll be deposited. So after I came home, I thought, okay, at midnight it would show, but I thought that's not right. So I text the the my contact and I said, I I'm just like disappointed if if my check isn't showing up at midnight for a direct deposit, that's it. I I'm not going to ever come back and support this. See, the reality of it is yes, like a must sound like a spoiled elder, but the reality of it is the is the inappropriate way they did not deal with the crisis that happened over the weekend. Now it happened Saturday and I like I was totally tired because of my asthma and I didn't hear about it until like eleven PM that evening. So the the young woman's mother had to come and pick up the ch her child. And for me, this is for the critique, why didn't they discipline the youth elder who had who had the vape Marina Crane (12:28.779) This w they're responsible for carrying an il a s a legal substance that is illegal for a child to inhale, ingest and overdose on. Like it it like I I just can't comprehend that the safety of these children. We talk about safety all the time in these meetings and what is it it what does it mean to be safe? What does it look like to be safe? Then we talk about respect. Okay, so here I am going, Where's the respect? They had one elder doing ceremony like s like and they've used him. They've used his his his process of ceremony, they've documented, they've done caricatures, they they've really taken Everything to document and say this is how you do things and this is what it means. Now, I'm gonna tell you a story again, and I'm this is a story within a story. And I when I was five and I my name was Ha Pa. When I first went to day school, which is different than residential school, Indian residential school, people the children were there, slept there, went to school there. At day day school, we were we just went to school in a school, you know, a schoolhouse, and come home. To our our home, and it was on the reserve. Day schools and residential schools were on reserves. So I'm going to compare myself to this male elder who was doing ceremony, who's a few years older than me. Same story, same parallel. When I I only knew my name was Hapon. And he, when he was a child of five, he only knew his Indian name as well. Now the difference is so totally different because for me when I went, the teacher said she explained like my brother my older brother Cheske was there and I didn't know his name was Larry. Marina Crane (14:19.303) So when a white woman comes to me and she says, Your name we called your name, how come you didn't answer? And I told them my who my name was and she says, No. And she pointed out to my brother, That's your brother. She she said I said yes. And she had to educate me that my brother's name was Larry and not Chescay. Then she had to educate me that my name was Marina and not Hapon, and that the difference was my Christian name was Marina, my Indian name was Hapon. That was it. That we was the example. extent of like my parents never told me there were cr there was such a thing as Christians or or that I was deemed a savage because I had a Indian name. I I'm I mean like I'm laughing because it's not that traumatic. It was something that's memorable because like for me it was like, I did not know and to have a white person what do you call it? mansplay me about about who I am and how people should call me. Understand this, all my peers they still call me Hopah, okay? So like for me, you know, a white teacher saying that to me is just like, okay. While while you're you're you're conducting everything and while you're teaching, you're gonna use y my Christian name. I can understand that. Okay, now the other fellow who was at the retreat, who was a male, in his Indian residential school experience at the first day of school, knowing th what his Indian name was, the in the teacher struck him. like like b basically terrorized him, brutalized him. Like really like he remembers the slap, he says. I remember like it was very painful. It was an attack, a physical attack from a white person to a child. They not only they not only did and I'm laughing, but I don't mean to laugh. They they put him in the attic and and from there he escaped through a little hatch, him and this other guy. And it was cold and they ran away to their aunt his aunties. Marina Crane (16:25.833) And and so it was a horrific experience for him. Now, why am I bringing these two up is because the majority of times mm hmm when I talk about Indian residential school and I talk about for me being indigenous, my experience with white people w has not been one of terror. Okay, yeah, my parents and my grandmother, yes. But and and this other elder because the majority of times I I went to a city school. I I've been around white people my entire life. And like I said, I've been involved with with youth programs since my early twenties. And and and even as a teenager, working with mentally disabled children. As a teenager. So The reality though is there are a lot of indigenous people who grew up in these residential schools who were isolated, had no other public exposure with white people except the administrators, the teachers, the people who actually worked in these Indian residential schools. So there was a lot of hate projected to these white people. Much the same way as like I said when I go into the meetings and and they project this hate towards me even though they don't even know me. So I and I I'm using that as an analogy for for what I see when when organizations try to bridge the gap, the cultural gap where the cross cultural gap is is they don't they're not taking into consideration that this fellow ha still has these issues with white people because because of the trauma he experienced. Whereas I don't have that. I I I really don't. Now the other form of disrespect was one of the social workers Marina Crane (18:14.697) I've I've worked with her, like 'cause she had to she had she had she was taking this lady's place for a while and she's she's like the type of person who who practice witchcraft. Now now for me I keep on telling people don't think what I do in terms of spirit is witchcraft. You know, like I'm I'm just being I'm I'm indigenous, like whatever I'm doing if colonial ways I think you want to think of it as witchcraft. No, that's a European concept, a white concept. But but they hired they had the woman isn't working for this organization. She they just brought her in as like a as a resource person to do a workshop. Now the reason I'm saying this is like I've had twenty years more experience with with this than she has. But but did they include me? No, they used this white woman to work with indigenous kids using it indigenous spirituality to talk to indigenous children. Which is like, do they know what they're doing? Do the does organization know what they're doing? Again, a shine of disrespect. But it didn't really hit me until I sat there in ceremony with the older fellow, his wife and the other elder other elders. Except for the other the male elder. He left early. Understand this too. We were supposed to camp there, but but only two two of us, me and another lady, camped there. The other the other four elders, they came and left. And the one elder, he just came in the morning, left, came in the morning, left, came back in the afternoon, left. Like you And he says he says to me, he says, I'm leaving, he says, th these youth elders are taking control. they're just talking, they're they're not talking to me. I don't even exist at this table. And he says, I'm going. Marina Crane (20:19.167) So so he left. And I thought to the I thought about the organizers when they were say when I was asking about the honorarium well, I said, Well we've got to really look into you know, the elders who stayed and we have to have a discussion about this. And I thought, What? That like are you gonna go to this male elder and ask him to give his money back? Like what are you doing and what are you thinking? But I had no discussion of it and I didn't want to discuss the incident that happened with the youth. Because the reality of it is like when you're when you're overseeing a program and you have your employee bringing a a substance that young people shouldn't have access to, that like like I said to this white lady, I said, if this was a white organization and it was a white family, they they would have made big issue of it and they could even sue the organization. But because it's indigenous, nothing is being done. And for me, like I just go, that's it. I I I can't associate myself with this group. Especially when like like rather than dealing with it, like if they put if they had so much respect for this male elder who was doing smudge, why didn't they use him to heal and deal with it like a conflict resolution with with the youth elder in in the program? 'Cause they had all these youth there and they were talking about like embracing and Like there's like the read, the comprehension, and the analysis. Okay, we're using so we use symbolism or ritual to have that. So there's a pro part of the reading or understanding what's being said and then there's the like the Marina Crane (22:14.091) like the comprehension of it. But then there's the analysis. See the whole process of using ceremony for the the older man who had that experience as a child is he doesn't have the capacity to analyze because he's still that wounded child. But the organizers don't see it. They just see he's you know he's he went to Indian residential school. They they do not see that they do not see this projection of hate that he has because he's not able to analyze what's happening within a construct of conflict and resolution. And and for that reason, like they if if he did, they could have used him to have a conflict resolution session with the youth elder and the fan like they there could have been some healing happening is But the reality of it is what I saw and then and then how they tried how they covered it up. In the ceremony the the they the the the man got up and gave one of the youth an indigenous name. And everybody's just clapping, like crying and like, you know, this youth I don't know who this youth was. But it just seemed all staged and performative that all of a sudden here's this elder giving Indian name to this youth. Now, understand this, they use this youth, this this male elder and his wife consistently. And all the staff in this organization that works, you know, that's called even has an indigenous name, all of them have indigenous names because this indigenous elder has given them all indigenous names. Okay, all based on this trauma traumatic experience he had as a child. And yet, what is the purpose? You know, he it's just like he's creating a whole bunch of pretendions. Because a lot of these people don't have intentions of living in First Nations or even working in First Nations. Marina Crane (24:25.121) You know, th they're they're comfortable living i in like a padded s in a padded poofy place in the city, you know, protected by the organization. under the guise and the umbrella, like we're we're we're respecting indigenous people. A and yet and yet the reality of it is like, what are you doing? Like like for me I'm stepping back and I'm critiquing the whole process. Because because what what is the point? They're they're just they're just glamorizing the smudge. They're glamorizing the name giving. And and that's what I said to the head organizer. You you need to have like two spirited artists mixing and interacting with the youth elders and the youth. I said, because the two spirited know the reality of what's what it is out there in terms of s you know in terms of the violence towards towards gender. I said there's there's no, you know, tr try like there these young people are dealing with it. Like one of the elders, I mentioned that at the pandemic I just found out that I could access porn on my phone. Like a couple of elders just says, What? She says, I give my my granddaughter wants my phone and I give it to her. She says, How can I check what she's been watching? So I I show her how to check the history on on her on her phone. And I and I said, I said, see, this is how easy it is to hook up to porn. And she said, she couldn't believe it. And I said, Well, I'm just letting you know I didn't know this until like the pandemic. And like like things like that, like like as elders. Like these youth elders or whatever they thought that, you know, us y elders don't know. Yes, we don't know but the reality's we know what's out there. You know, I like I said, I was a youth elder in my twenties and I I knew about human trafficking. I saw it. Like it's it's been around. So, you know, why make it look like as elders that we don't we we you know, all we can do is ceremony. Marina Crane (26:46.195) And and the reality of it is yes, we can do ceremony, as long as it has this the reading part of it, the comprehension of the ceremony and the analysis of it. If the analysis part of it is not there, then it doesn't have meaning. So the analysis is like, okay, he has hatred towards white people. I'll use an example. I've been around white people my whole life and when I was a child kids used to say, make it rain. Do a raindance. Like whatever witchcraft or savage thing they thought, they sure as hell put it on me. Come on, make it rain. Now I thought, if you're so damn ignorant, I'll I'll I'll let you stew in your own facts. So I say, okay, I'll make it rain. But if they were so gullible to believe that I could make it rain, who's the stupid one? And that's like in them going, am I teaching them a lesson? Yeah, because nowadays like people pay money to to indigenous people under the guise that something's gonna happen. Okay, now what I for whatever construct it is, human nature, read, comprehend and analyze, that's just that simple. Those are just simple skills in every culture. But to not see it or be blind to it within when it comes to indigenous elders, that's showing disrespect. That's for me I I I know what I'm I know what I'm saying. I know my worth. Even having people at the retreat complimenting me. Like I've I've had people like that I can that relate to what I'm saying. And and so it's not it's not like something that I'm just digging up to make trouble. The the reality of it is that when you have organizations who are so desperate to to want to create a program for youth, they forget the basic construct of all youth. And so when they use this Icelandic model, that's a concept that they're using universal. But I don't know why they're pussyfooting around indigenous people. Marina Crane (29:03.733) to make it look like we don't understand? Like really to hide from the elders that there was a crisis happening Saturday evening? What what was our purpose there? Also too, the fact that they they had already known where all the people who were attending the retreat were gonna s be housed, and they put the elder women in the shittiest c cabin of all. And everybody else got everything nice. Everything was nice. And and again too, again with gender. Why is it all the time that it is indigenous women who are disrespected? Like I said, these two men have honor the two the one man and the one man's wife have have honorary degre PhDs. I have a degree. My education has been hardworked. Like I I worked full time and I went to school full time. Nothing was handed to me. Nothing was handed to me like, yeah, she's been she knows her language and let's give her an honorary degree or she knows the ceremony, let's give her an honorary degree. No, I academically I I studied. There so I know the reading, the comprehension, and the analysis of it. Of anything. I tr I s like there was a p an aha moment when when he was talking about smudge and and he used the analogy of a nest. And how there's all these little birds in the nest. So so I want you to realize like when when you're in that nest and and this is how I explained it to explain it, every day when we grieve or we a a thought comes into our mind of someone we've lost, it's a nest. You know, we're embracing that that that re that memory. And and the thing is we embrace it and how we embrace it like the memory of what we th we we remember. I I usually just say embraced with protective reflective healing energy. So that's what the nest is made out of that so you're you're embracing that memory. Now the analogy is okay you got the the the nest and the there's all these chickadees in there and then you're releasing you're releasing those chickadees so they're flying. Okay, so again when when I when I when I Marina Crane (31:30.027) Like I said, when I think about somebody that I've lost and I and I embrace them with with you know I I visualize them in protective reflective healing energy. And then I also when I release them I say I release them with protective reflective healing energy from self defeating if it's suicidal thoughts or if it's illusions or delusions, eroti eroticism, limerence, whatever whatever The context of that memory is I release it with with that, that protective, reflective, healing energy, because I embraced it first and then I release it. So the metaphor is there's this nest with chickadees in it that's being embraced. So those chickadees are those memories or human beings. And then when they fly off from the nest, that's releasing, releasing that memory b because you're grateful to have had that memory, but you're releasing it. So much of the time when and I and this is like a daily practice, just in as a metaphor, when you go to a hotel or or you leave your space or something, you call yourself. I'll say, Marina, let's go home now. Let's go. So I'm calling my spirit to come with me out of that hotel room to go home. And so that's the metaphor is that when when you're releasing those chickadees, you're basically calling your spirit to come home with you. Okay, because you don't want you don't want that trauma to be held you don't want to keep that trauma or that memory. What and the thing too is this is the whole context. That memory doesn't mean that it's trauma. It could be a beautiful memory too. It could be one of eroticism, it could be one of love, it could be one of orgasm. So so that that's why I'm I'm saying the the the read of it and and the what's the the the understanding, the process of it, like the validation of it. And so you you're thankful. So for me it's like woopidami dakya piowasana. Like thank you, grandfathers and grandmothers. we're all human beings. We're all related. Okay, so that's the context of the the the chickadees in the nest and the the chickadees flying away. And and so that's the reality of it is like you you you call your spirit home Marina Crane (33:50.258) and and you're you're you're you're calling them you're calling your spirit home. At the same time too, like you're you're you're releasing whatever attachment you have because you don't want to bring that home to you. But the th the the analysis of it though is is what was missing in the ceremony, in the story, in the narrative. Because see the the lesson here is the person And I use the analogy of the story like my name was Hop Pond, his he had his name. The analysis of it is like I have no hor horrific memory of a white person beating the bejesus out of me. The analysis for him is he remembers that. That's that's that's his his catalyst, that's his projection. That's his reason for doing ceremony. People are giving him money and saying, make it rain and and and they and for him he's he he's not gonna say, I don't know how to make it rain. He's gonna take your money for whatever it's worth, whatever you're gonna give him, and he's gonna take it. Because he has unresolved trauma. And and yet do people who, you know, invite us elders to these places understand that. within itself because even you're an elder and you've had children and you've grown up, you're still carrying those those traumatic memories. And I have no I don't dislike this married couple. I don't. They're they're beautiful people. But the reality of the context of what is is is to help heal is is was totally lost. Was totally lost because The organizers didn't have have the respect to even share with the elders of the trauma that took place Saturday evening. They did not have the respect to have the youth elders engage with the elders and staff, without without the the the younger people, the the teenagers, the the actual youth being involved. This whole process of of conflict. Marina Crane (36:14.165) of what happened and why like how they dealt with that child and and her mother. I like I I just I I was just totally like flabbergasted because Sunday, when Sunday came and everything was wrapping up, did they even acknowledge me and this other female elder? You know, the the one male elder who has a honorary PhD, he left early that morning. Or he left later by I think before noon. And the and the other married couple, like they stayed. The other and the other two female elders they we s like they stayed. But but normally there'd be some respect shown to the elders for coming, acknowledgement from the youth elders and the youth. But they were so busy just to get people to go home, leave. I just felt I just felt like I was shunned. I had there was no respect. The the gifts I have and the knowledge I have was completely disrespected. Marina Crane (37:20.033) Like they they like the the people that they used like was totally mis mis misrepresented. Now I I'm I'm like I'm not I'm not perfect. I like I say, I haven't been sexually active in fifty years and even things that I'm addicted to 'cause of all all of us elders who attended this retreat, we all gamble. And based on this retreat and how I felt and what I discovered about about this whole dynamics o around the smudge and ceremony. I'd already been practicing, but it didn't really solidify. It didn't really solidify until the weekend and I realized I have to give up gambling cold turkey. In order for the analysis of what I'm doing to h have have some substance, I I need to do this. And it's not anything that I'm not prepared to do. I like you know, like er the whole world revolves around human sexuality and and you know like love is the most addictive addictive thing in life. So I I d I just think things were like it things could have been a lot would it could have been planned out a lot better. If if they had a clinical psychologist or or a psychiatrist or some s even even the model from Iceland if if they understood that model And and they used it to critique their youth elders. And even to have those youth elders involved with the elders. I like that was totally lost. And and for those youth elders should totally disrespect the elders. Like when I say total disrespect, I mean the actual engagement. I I was sitting there with a youth and a youth elder came and just interfered with what I the conversation I was having with this fifteen year old. Marina Crane (39:23.029) And and that's why I I say a a lot of people are ashamed to be indigenous. And they project it onto they project it onto the elders. And if people cannot see that and address it and s and say like they're not you're not gonna be sitting down and put putting a youth elder and saying you're you're you're ashamed to be indigenous. Now, there's there's let's see, I think it's Marina Crane (39:54.221) There's still very much th No. Hold on. Marina Crane (39:59.886) Here we go. see I want you to understand too, it says, you know, imagine forcing generations of indigenous people to hide who they are and then criticize them for not knowing their culture. So that's that's why I'm saying like like I've grown up in that environment. I've spent my entire life trying to understand my culture. And and for for people to to poo poo me. after I've spent my whole life as like as a child as a child and then a youth elder and then studying psychology, working in a state hospital for high suicide girls. Not only that too, like it's just the amount of education I've had. I was education director too. I've worked digging ditches. I've d everything and anything I've done. I've even fought against gangs of white men. Like I like I tell you, I'm educated. But the harsh reality of what systemic racism is out there for our youth, I've lived it. But for organizer organizations to look at this elder elderly couple as being like sanitized, when really they have they they they have this anger. They have this anger based on tr childhood trauma. I I'm gonna play this here. My dad was a survivor of the Indian Day School system and he left school after grade five and then spent much of his life hiding his Indigenous identity. And so I didn't fully learn about my own Indigenous identity till he was about 15 years old. And I think about that a lot because when people ask why some Indigenous people don't speak their language and don't know their traditions or aren't connected to their culture, I want them to understand something. Disconnection does not happen in a vacuum. So when generations of people are made to feel ashamed of who they are, when their culture is treated as something inferior, when they're taught to assimilate just to survive, that doesn't magically disappear when the policies change. The effects of that get carried forward into families, into identities, into the next generation. And sometimes the people trying to reconnect are the very people who are never given the opportunity to learn in the first place. Marina Crane (42:20.961) I didn't grow up speaking my language and I didn't know everything about my culture and I still don't because access is a whole nother topic for another day, but that doesn't make me any less indigenous. It means that there are things I am still learning, things that I am still reclaiming, and responsibilities I have to the generations coming after me. We shouldn't have to prove how indigenous we are to people who have no understanding of what it took for some of us to find our way back. And maybe that's the part that people need to understand the most. Reconnection isn't always about returning to something you remember. Sometimes it's about finding your way back to something that your family was never allowed to pass down and then choosing to make sure that the story doesn't end with you. That's why when I use the analogy of the chickadee in the nest, that's something this elder and this elderly couple have but handed down. Now that's a story and that's his story. But it doesn't mean that it's culturally significant just to him alone. Whereas like like okay, that's connection. Yes, because he's never he's never left his reserve. He he's never been around exposed to white people as much as say I am. And that disconnection like with language or disconnection with community, I've I've fought it my whole life. Th there even within my own family when I got a degree, my older brother said, Well, you're not Indian anymore. So this whole disconnection, even as a woman, I I've never had a partner or children, though therefore I'm not indigenous enough. Because I haven't I haven't gone through the the the the ritual and the ceremony of of of having a child with with without without marrying my partner or I haven't had a child by marrying someone f from not from my community because then that means I'd leave my community or that I had a child with somebody from my community, legally married. Or again, you know, like like I said, there is there is the caste system. Marina Crane (44:38.699) The narrative the narrative on on what we do, even even in terms of for for me, how I started doing things just just for the sake of of trying to understand my culture, not not even realizing like, my goodness, I'm I'm I'm actually I'm actually taking part in this. That sentence, white men are saving brown women from brown men. If you Judith Butler is the only one, so I don't fault you, who actually Understood what was going on there. Even I didn't know until I found out and I told Judy, I must honestly say. So I said to myself, taking, and I it's right there in writing, taking Freud's monetary example, I thought that if I constructed a sentence like a child is being beaten, then I could. Take that sentence as my object of study and move. In that sentence, what was I doing? This I realized much later. I was citing a white man, namely Freud, in order to save myself, a brown woman, from the Hindus, brown men. So therefore, I was doing exactly this is this is why one must learn to read. I was doing exactly what in fact I was also criticizing supposedly by constructing that essay. So this particular example, when I finally realized, hey, this is what I was doing, I called Judy, I said, Judy, you won't understand what I just discovered, man. I am the object of the critique of this damn essay that's become so popular. And when you do that kind of thing. Marina Crane (46:43.224) Then you realize an extremely important lesson, which is the lesson of the being folded together with your enemy. Being complicit, folded together, not complicit in the sense of conspiratorial or doing something underhanded, but that's the first rule of forging a strong critique, not us and them. But the fact that we are in it together. No excusing, but also no accusing. That essay, the first part of it, is a critique of Foucault and Deleuze. I turned to my own class, I turned to my own caste, and I turned to my family. That was where I turned. Where could I go? I went to a family scandal. She was my grandmother's sister. family scandal is where I turned in order to escape from my situation in the United States at that pz at that moment of being an expert in deconstruction and French feminism, which I think perhaps was a mistake. But you know I began then to become de-skilled because people immediately thought I spoke for the non existent third world, which is not true. That sent so Why I'm bringing this up too is like like when she says Freud or the the w white man helping the brown skin woman against brown skinned men. Now I'll play it again and I and there'll be a part where I will stop because when she s she uses the f the term child like a ch child being abused. so we'll l I'd like you to listen to this because this this woman her name is Sorry, sorry, sorry. It's just okay. Her her name, it's clapp C I A No, not Clap, C-I-A-P-S underscore official. And humanities Humanities democracy and the politics of knowledge in higher education. Keynote delivery of prof Professor Gytri and her last name is C H A K. Marina Crane (49:09.389) K-R-A-V-O-R-T-Y, S-P-I-V-A-K in September 2014. And it's an excerpt from a full lecture that refers it's a better understanding for educational purpose. Apparently, there is a surge in misleading explanation being circulated by various self-proclaimed experts on this essay. It isn't it better to listen to the author herself. explain what it actually means? Of course it is. Intellectual curiosity is good, but that shouldn't undermine the actual meaning of what the author intended. Can the s the sub subalterin speak? Was never an impossible impossibility complex essay to understand. Over decades it has been made to seem complex through layers and varied interpretation and misinterpretations. The authenticity of the essay remains intact. It one if one cares to go back and listen to the public lecture of her of her exp how she explains her own writing, at times even sentence by sentence, we should take note. And and so that's that's the whole point of too what I do when it comes to my when my podcast. Now I'll I'll like I said, I'll play it again because The the whole notion of what she's talking about is basically what I've been talking about when it comes to retreat and how people see like like like what he's talking about feminism and and just the critique of it. Hold on. That sentence white men are saving brown women from brown men. If you Judith Butler is the only one, so I don't fault you, who actually understood what was going on there. Even I didn't know until I found out and I told Judy, I must honestly say. So I said to myself, taking and I it's right there in writing, taking f see and for me when I appeared on the fifth estate it was a white like a white company helping me, an indigenous woman Marina Crane (51:32.025) per be protected from an indigenous man, Nathan Chasing Horse. So that's why like this this whole theory and what this professor is talking about really hits home because this is this is women of color. Freud's monetary example, I thought that if I constructed a sentence like a child is being beaten. So for me the construct was if a child is being trafficked. So so the whole premise is like when my niece Roberta was being trafficked. At the time twenty years ago I didn't I didn't see I didn't understand it. I knew I knew grooming, I knew manipulation, I knew like something was happening, but but there was no way that I could coerce or control my niece to into disclosure. There there would have to it would just like I had to put put my like hoped somehow somewhere things would come to play and she would realize or any victim would realize that there's no statute of limitations you can charge your perpetrator is being beaten then I could take that sentence as my object of study and move. In that that sentence, what was I doing? This I realized much later. I was citing a white man, namely Freud, in order to save myself, a brown woman, from the Hindus, brown men. So therefore, I was doing exactly this is this is why one must learn to read. I was doing exactly what, in fact, I was also criticizing, supposedly, by constructing that essay. This particular example, when I finally realized, hey, this is what I was doing, I called Judy, I said, Judy, you won't understand what I just discovered, man. I am the object of the critique of this damn essay. See and that's why when I say I have closure having gone to the sentencing, seeing witnessing the injustice, like having seeing Nathan Chasinghorse being sentenced to life, like thirty seven years before he can apply for parole, and then sentenced to life. Marina Crane (53:57.206) Not only that, but if he appealed and got off, he would be extradited to Montana with federal charges. And then even then too, if he got found guilty, served time, didn't appeal, and he got off, he'd be ex he'd be taken into Canada to face other charges. So the the whole point is like the explanation of like I'm we're I'm depending on white law to protect this brown skinned woman against a brown skinned man. Not just me, but all all indigenous girls and women. and and the thing is like like I like I really am intrigued with how she describes things. Governor, I am the object of the critique of this damn essay that's become so popular. And when you do that kind of thing, then you realise an extremely important lesson. which is the lesson of the of being folded together with your enemy. The being complicit, folded together, not complicit in the sense of conspiratorial or doing something underhanded. But that's the first rule of forging a strong critique, not us and them, but the fact that we are in it together. No And that's why like for me when I talk about the the investigative reporter who who was there supporting me like s well also supporting himself too because it wasn't him or me. It was like like sh like she put it, it's it's it's together. It's not us and them, it's together that you know, this is a common a common a a common fight, it's a common thing that we're we're talking about, like trafficking. And and and so like it's it's important that the like the like she said, I didn't know I was the object of the the essay. And it's the same thing like when I started my blog twenty years ago and and it and she'll talk about it, like where she ran to because of the cr the crisis, the trauma or the cr the cr the yeah, well the crisis, the thing that happened Marina Crane (56:23.559) And and the the revelation of it, like it's it's it's taken a long time. This wasn't something that just you know, abracadabra, I would understand feminism or understand the the colonial constructs of systemic racism. Or and even even understanding the the nature of of ritual and ceremony, even when it comes to like how people they themselves are are not stuck but they're just they they haven't moved on from their experience because they chose it's just like somebody who chooses to go and get an education, actual degree, or a person who chooses to not be engaged in a relationship, or a person who chooses not to be sexually active, or a person who chooses not to gamble. Though there it's it's an action, it's a very powerful action that takes willpower. Even like like I had mentioned Arnold Schwarzenegger whose father was a a Nazi, he says how hard it was for him to to deconstruct, to take away those values and beliefs and understand it. He said it was as hard as bodybuilding. So so that's why I'm saying twenty years and and for me to come to this point in my life, it it's not anything, it's not it's not an easy thing that we think of. Like I like I was talking to this White woman and I said racism like it like I'm I'm I'm un i it's interesting when you look at the Salem witch hunts and how and you even look at indigenous slavery and how racism has morphed into this Halloween thing. No excusing but also no accusing. That essay the first part of it is a critique of Foucault and Deleuze. I turned to our own class. I done to my own cost and I darned to my family. That was what See, that's the whole thing. I turned to my own class, being indigenous. First Nations Inuit Metis. I turned to my own caste. Under the Indian Act, the echelon, the higher echelon white woman, all the way down to the lower class caste of me being not attached to anybody or having children. Marina Crane (58:48.769) And then I turned to my family because it was my family that was hurting because Nathan Chasing Horse hurt hurt our niece, hurt my niece. And my brother was involved in that participating in that trafficking, hurting her as well. Like it it it it had to come from family, it had to come from the caste system, it had to come from the community. So everything she's saying is so profound for me. And I wanted to share that with this podcast. And I turned to my family. That was where I turned. And where could I go? I went to a family scandal. She was my grandmother's sister. This family scandal is where I turned in all see that's why I'm saying Nathan Chazinghorse had already had a propensity for children, like a as as young as ten years old. Twenty years ago his focus was on fifteen year olds actually having sex with fifteen year olds. And and the whole narcissistic Machiavellian part of like when we say women are a thousand times more narcissistic because they will do anything to protect their child, even giving their ch or perceived by the cast, the sis the caste, the class, not the cast well the caste too, the class and the caste and family. that they are good mothers, even to the point where they're giving their child to Nathan Chasinghorse. Even like because again, it's at any cost that the mother must look like she is a good human being, a good mother. Or or for or for that matter, anybody who is doing something in terms of ritual and ceremony, that the people who are participating are looking at that person who's a narcissist who will who will do anything to to be perceived as being a good human being through ceremony and ritual. Marina Crane (01:00:53.473) Sister, this family scandal is where I turned in order to escape from my situation in the United States at that p at that moment of being an expert in deconstruction and French feminism, which I think see and for me it was escape like from my community because I'm pr I was perceived like I was perceived as a lower class. Okay, so even though I'm saying to them, No, this is limerence. This is infatuation, this is grooming. It you know, it it didn't matter because like like I use the analogy, I don't know if any of you have ever watched the show Star Trek, where Spock has died and he they bring him back to life. And the doctor, Leonard McCoy, says to Spock, what was it like to die? And Spock says, Have you ever died? He's asked Leonard McCoy and he says, No. And then Spock says, Well we can't have a dialogue. We can't have a discourse, we can't have any narrative. about death because you've never experienced it. And I use that in terms of respect. Unless you have actually felt it, breathed it, ate it, digested. If you cannot if you have never ever felt respect, how can you have a con how can you have a conversation about respect? And it's the same thing too with with human trafficking. If you haven't ever experienced it and understood it, then how can you have a conversation with it. That's why it's so critical for for people to have to to be comfortable in in their own skin and understanding what it is that you're trying to educate and protect young people from if if people don't really have some some structure that's in place. Even even in the work even in a work a work field. Like that's the whole point of having a job is to have people help you r fortify your strengths that you're you're already bringing to the table. French feminism, which I think perhaps was a mistake, but you know, I began then to become de skilled because people immediately thought I spoke for the non existent third world, which is not true. That sentence So I I just wanted to to share that with you because you know I I I get Marina Crane (01:03:21.205) I get emails from people who who've listen to my podcast and they talk about trauma and all all that they do with their students and other people. But for me, like I said, I i it's it's a part of grieving that I have to release myself from this program only only because of the seriousness of what they're trying to do, in my opinion is a very poor attempt. And they get they get money. They get money to to do these things. And I just didn't totally realize the gist of what they were doing because I never really saw all the staff or all the youth elders or all and or even the youth that they were working with until the retreat and and even how they interacted with the the the two couple the couple who they use as the the the guideline or the impetus or the data collector to to to mimic To mimic this this program, this youth program from Iceland. Which to me is like why are you trying to do this? Like there are educated indigenous people, psychologists, psychiatrists, like that they could you could hire to help you. even the fact too is like there are 40 thousand indigenous people in the city of Calgary. There are students at the university who are studying psychology. There are students who are studying social work. Why why are you not hiring them part time to be youth elders? there I I just saw some of the youth elders as really having some some like those youth elders it Like y counselling, therapists. Marina Crane (01:05:24.471) Where's the structure for those youth elders to have therap their therapists and therapy? When when when you go to university and and you're going into the master's program or other p PhD programs, higher education, they require that you you know go to therapy so you understand what therapy is all about. But when you don't have any of that support even in the work fit place, because you're you're trying to educate the the youth elders and you're trying to give them skills. It it it just it it amazes me of the lack of opportunity that that they are not giving to the youth elders. I have no issue with the youth elders. I don't know them personally. I I just know I just know that like we're we all struggle. Every day we struggle. But but I do think like I said if if it were if it weren't indigenous, if it were a white camp and it was a white mother whose child white child had gone through this, they they would have asked for they would have asked to have that worker fired, that white worker fired or disciplined or something. But but for the organization to even hide it away from the elders who they presume to be like their wisdom and knowledge keepers, it it totally it totally just it's like a slap in the face. And and I'm critiquing it because I know the married couple wouldn't see it. And that's what I'm talking about, the analysis of it. They they don't have the analysis part of it. I I do. And and that's why I'm doing my podcast. Be because it's critical. It's it's a critical con it's a critical approach to mental health. And I and I've used that basic that basic like read, appreh comprehend and analysis. it's w some people say, How can you tell a sociopath? Well, you could tell a a so a person's sociopath within five minutes. So like there's there's just some things in the context of working with people that Marina Crane (01:07:37.44) And and and like I said and respect. you know, I I I'm I'm grateful. Like I I know I have certain gifts. I I know my worth. And one of the ladies who was working, she was she's she said to me, I'm planning on leaving my husband. And she said, he doesn't want me to go, but I told him I'm gonna leave him and And the reality of it is like the conclusion she broke down in tears because she knew this man she'd been legally married to didn't respect her. And and and this is a woman who chose to get married and have children with this man. And as as we're aging, like for her to be aging and and to to you know, be s weer weary and afraid that she's going to run into another part a new partner that's gonna have the same disrespect to her. like it's it's it's a real fear. But the reality of it is that she she, in my opinion, has the skill set to to not get into such a relationship. That the new relationship that she's gonna get into is one where the man is going to actually respect her. And and like I said, it's a word. The word respect is a word. But but you have to have experienced it in order to have a dialogue with another human being. And and I think this this white woman when she heard it from me, an indigenous woman, that's when she just broke down in tears. So for that I'm grateful for that and the reality of what I try to give to people who listen to me when I do talk publicly is important. And and the reality too is like I said, depending on a white man to help a brown skinned woman be defended against brown skinned men. Like it it and again it's not convoluted like the lady said, it's it's the whole statement a child is being trafficked. And that we all have this commonality, despite the fact that we come from different cultures and different backgrounds. Marina Crane (01:10:05.335) that that we're still fighting against human trafficking. And the reality of it is how how do we become that we become the object of the critique, like she said, because because we we dared to to to we dared to make it a narrative. We we dared to create that narrative, just that pure simple statement, to read it. We dared to read it. And because of that, the whole process, the whole process, like she says, the class, the caste and and family. It it it's it's that process that but yet it's the analysis that I I think when when a person is frozen in time and frozen in trauma, frozen in whatever we'll call ignorance or systemic racism for or or you know, whatever as being oppressed, we we we we have to really honor ourselves because it it like I said, i for me it's taking a long time. And and like this when we do these academic talks or I do the critique or I find somebody who who's on TikTok or the Instagram or some social media that really strikes a cord in the very foundations of what I've been doing these past twenty years or even longer. Like I said, I started when I was in my early twenties, you know, doing protests and being with youth organizations. I was a youth elder. And I and I've connected and I've still tried to stay connected to my childhood friends. And the reality of of like like I said, we're we're put in this position not not because not because we chose to. It's because society said, you know, y don't speak your language. It's an er like I like I've said in other previous podcasts, I have f I have even within my own family who are ashamed to be indigenous. And and so when you when you have that and then you have people who hate who hate white people, not not in the sense of like swearing and cursing like like the Ku Klux Klan, like that. No, not like that. It's very subtle. Marina Crane (01:12:31.949) It's a very subtle it like I I say, systemic racism it morphs, it it has a life of its own. It it it it morphs and shape shifts into something different. And and so we have to always be cautious of of the engagement of of the of of of the process of whatever we're going to do to help somebody heal or or will say deconstruct a thought. It's that's the only way I can explain it because because it's elusive. It's it's like I said, I I as a child, like I I put that notion away. You know, if somebody says make it rain, I'll now I just say I I I I don't know how to make it rain. I don't know where you got that notion from. But whereas a child I would say, okay, I'll make it rain. Just you know, give me give me a dollar, give me two books Two dollars. I'll I'll make it rain tomorrow. See, we're we're still living in that time. We're still living in that time. Because because without that, people like Buffy Saint Marie wouldn't have been created. She would she if they were not if there were not indigenous people who had been had the bejesus scared out of them as a child by a white person. If if a ch if an indigenous child hadn't had beaten hadn't been beaten up by an adult, I'd I tend to think there wouldn't be so many pretendians out there. Because it's those children that grow up that want to share and say this is who I am when really they're still healing. It wasn't their fault that they were brutalized in those Indian residential schools. But to to do like to accept the money, and I'm using it as an analogy, okay? Marina Crane (01:14:32.865) Because like I said, this this this this couple just gives Indian names left and right to this organization and I believe all the women in that organization have Indian names and and he calls them their daughter his daughters. So, you know, i in some in some weird twisted way, you know, it's a mild form of what Nathan Chasinghorse was doing. And and that's why I keep on saying Nathan Chasinghorse grew up in a very violent community. and a very poor community and and no doubt saw a lot of physical violence from white people to to to him and and his parents. So that being said I I I I hope you understand. I grew up in Soutina. I was bust into the city every day. if I had to fight people, like physically fight boys I was I was doing it as a child because they're they were taunting me. And then and then if I had to fight a gang of white men because I was coming out of a a nightclub with a bunch of other indigenous gr women, that was out of survival. So you know, there there are different dynamics to how people process systemic racism. So with that, like that's a learning lesson for me and I hope you understand where I'm coming from. and and this is what I said to this white lady yesterday. I I I live in my community. I I live in my community. I I came back into my community hoping this was my homeland. When when I was a child and I I don't think a lot of people in their thirties or forties get it but for me when I was a child and I was bust into the city I was bust into white white world. When I came home, I was in the homeland. This was I knew I was in the homeland. I knew this was my land. I knew this like I not land in the sense, but I knew I belonged to the land. And I use the analogy like like when a black American goes to Ghana or someplace in Africa, it usually takes a week to two weeks for them to feel like they're in the homeland. Like when a police a black police officer pulls over a black man from Marina Crane (01:16:58.953) America after a week they're saying, Okay, I'm I did I was speeding. You're not pulling me over because I'm black. You're pulling me over because I'm a human being, because he's in the homeland. And and for me, doing this podcast and saying no, when I was a child I understood homeland, the whole concept of land back, I understood it. I don't think our young people understand it anymore because of because of the way things are. Look at Alberta trying to separate. my goodness, like do do they in even understand the concept of land back? Like sovereignty? A for me as an indigenous elder I do not feel like the homeland. And I and and you know, when they have the Orange Shirt Day and all that and people are walking around saying, yeah, they did this genocide and I feel clo I feel like I'm claustrophobic and I'm a I can't escape, even though I I have I'm protected in my own home and my own community. Once I leave my community There's systemic racism. I'm not allowed to be a human being. My Caldered friend said her niece went to a seven eleven and this viet this Filipino woman who was a cashier was being called down by this white man. And the indigenous gr woman was just there in the seven eleven and he started calling her down. Like every filthy thing in the book this white man could say the Filipino woman and this indigenous woman because he was white. Like how scary is that that even immigrants and indigenous people don't even feel safe being human beings in Canada and in Calgary and in Alberta. I mean I I I use the analogy of systemic racism, even looking after my late mother for over a decade when I take her to the hospital, I would be there in the emergency for ten hours. She'd get admitted, I'd make sure she'd get to her room. Every day I would go to the hospital, spend ten hours visiting her because of systemic racism, because of how people would treat her. And I made sure that she was never afraid when I was there. And I said that to her. Marina Crane (01:19:09.709) Holding her hand even before she passed away. I said I didn't know, mum, that you were taken away at five years old. I didn't know how you were scared of these white people. White people who she see beat the beaches out of these children. Marina Crane (01:19:28.203) I said I'll be there. Creator, grandfathers and grandmothers, their will being done, I was there as she took her last breath. I was holding her hand. So yes, it's very sublime and very like it's not something that you can actually see and witness. It's just something so elusive, this systemic racism, this attitude that that we think other people don't sense. But it it's there. All we have to do is is not be afraid to bear witness to it. Again, I am I'm grateful, I'm very grateful. for the respect I've been shown. I I didn't think that it would take such a long time for me to embrace it and release it. I hope you've had some insight into this podcast. And for me it's the critique that how critical it is for our youth. we really need to have we really need to have strong programs that that really embrace and enhance our young people. Our young people who when I was younger w were doing things for young people. You know, this program had an opportunity to hire a two spirited young man who at fifteen was advocating for healthy human sexuality. And when his contract was up, they didn't even offer him a job. So opportunities come, but when you have people who are afraid of their jobs or or think they're doing a good job, they I really think that you have to really look at at what you're doing and who's hiring you. And like I said, a hundred and fifty graduates from university and not one was offered a job. Marina Crane (01:21:30.014) And so when it comes to economic development and Sudina and how we honor our youth, give them jobs, make sure they go to school full time and work full time. Because because our our our children, our grandchildren, this is for for them. Nobody's gonna do it. White people aren't gonna do it for us.