My advice given to indigenous women regarding therapies

(00:01.706) Hello, here, July 15th. This is a Wednesday and our community is in mourning. Our head chief lost his mother and she's like about four years older than myself. But I'm just relating what I've been going through this week. So also, I think yesterday they buried the 12 year old child who committed suicide in another community. Okay, so what am I talking about today? Well, it's more of advice or just the reality of when I talk to Indigenous women and white women, usually it's Indigenous women who, you know, I've been around because I'm Indigenous. is when I suggest therapy I say shop around and for good reason. So I'm going to be, I've taken some notes really abstract wise regarding how some women give advice to other women. and it's, this is from, in my opinion okay, she puts it on TikTok so I'm... I'm not following her. I'm just using her example to talk about my life. her name is Leslie Taverner. So again, she says, women are being told to refrain from expressing what they're looking for in relationships for fear that man will use them to act the part. Example, pretend that he also seeking committed relationship or marriage to get sex and deceive them. Example, get sex and then ghost her. In other words, instead of alchemizing the underlying fear of being used, the women are being told to play games. Women are being told not to discuss their relationship hurts, instead claim that all men treat them like queens. (02:21.442) This is deceptive and a way to avoid vulnerable communication where you not only share how you were hurt, but you also share how you contributed to those toxic experiences and how you have healed and are healing from these experiences. She calls this the dark feminine energy is not afraid to be vulnerable or authentic. It is shielding herself from potential pain. instead, she's the alchemist. any pain that arises, alchemizes any pain that arises into power. This is what makes her irresistible. Now, I've gone through a few of her TikToks and they're very short. They're very short TikToks and (03:12.494) Again, I'm going to, like there's I think four of them, but what really intrigued me was just how sad and lonely women are. And again, she says, many women are depressed because they're missing their dark, masculine man despite all the challenges that they had in their relationships. Like I said, I haven't been in a relationship, but all my childhood friends and women my age have experienced this with what she calls, this lady calls dark, masculine man. And so... (04:00.75) What's up? Like she says, your depression is a gift. It's full of the dark feminine in you. Utilize your depression to let go of the expectations of disappointment in the man you must love. Most love, not must love, most love, as well as disappointment with the money. It's perfect to do internet work. Anyway, that's what she says. But I'm critiquing her work too, but There are some valuable insights that she does have that I do think are important. So I'm going to start off with part one and work its way to reasons why women feel that they're attracted to a certain man. Now, in most cases, when I've talked to Indigenous older women and I talk to them about how I'm sexually attracted to an individual or men that I've been around because for them, they have their children and their grandchildren. They see me as like this woman who hasn't been in a relationship, almost like I'm neutered. So it's very triggering for them when I start talking about healthy human sexuality. my friend who I spoke to yesterday, I was telling her, and again, in this whole... podcast, I'm going to be talking about three different types of men. And I don't want to give their names out. But again, too, this is just the dynamics of what's been happening in the past three years with me. And like historical wise, too, because I do think a lot of times when therapists or self-help gurus come around, they're not really... (05:57.902) They're sort of abstract in how they want to give advice and help to other women based on little parts of their life. In my podcast, I'm trying to talk about things that have triggered me from a vulnerable point and how even what this lady is talking about when I talk to my friends, my childhood friends, or even like just people, like women. I think out of all the women I do talk to, there was only one that was still married in a relationship. All the others, they just separated or just chose to live and raise their children by themselves. And of course, too, my white friend is like that. She's divorced and her son is married. And so she's living like independently. And we were talking and I was telling her about my what I've known her before the pandemic. And she's always using the word authentic. Now, this lady that I'm going to be quoting on from from the podcast, she uses those words to. Now, why am I doing this? Because I want to sort of caution you about when you're seeking therapies and, you know, like really shop around. What one woman may say may not even be applicable to you. And again, to most of the women, the Indigenous women that I do talk to, don't want to go to therapy. It's just... It's just the reality. Now, I'm sorry for that going off like that. I don't know how I'm going to stop it because that's a bit annoying, isn't it? Let's see if I can do this here. I am going to shut it off. Sorry about that. It's just things that I need to do. (08:09.664) Okay, that should work. Okay, we'll start this. I'm going to do the first one and then I'll break into it. I mean, it sounds I'm horrible in sort of not giving you an outline and all that, but here goes. Looking at meeting new men and dating them. And so she asked me, how do I go about vetting these men beyond just, you know. good looks and sexual chemistry. So that's what I'm going to talk about on the reel today. And I want you to start to pay attention to your body, start to pay attention to how you feel when you interact with men. And that will let you know, A, if you're attracted to them in the first place, and B, how are you attracted to them? because there's different ways in which the feminine is attracted to the masculine or in which the feminine chooses the masculine. So my dark masculine man and his wife, Carla and Kenny Stevens, they have written a whole book on this. It's called The Nine Expressions of Love. That's the title of the book. And in that book, they talk about the feminine choice paradigm, which I'll go into a little bit in this reel. And they also talk about the masculine desire paradigm, which I won't go into today. So in the feminine choice paradigm, the feminine is attracted to the masculine for different reasons, depending on which masculine archetype is showing up in that man relative to her. So if you are choosing a man because of intense sexual chemistry, that man would be a dark masculine man to you. or another term for that is he would be your womb choice, meaning that you have a primal sexual attraction to him. So your root chakra and your sacral chakra are very attracted to this man. You very much want to have sex with this man and you know it right away. So when you feel that and you start to communicate with him, you can let him know, you know, this is the reason why I feel drawn to you. feel. (10:29.41) very sexually activated by you and I want to experience a sexual connection with you, okay? That's honest and that's vulnerable and I recommend that you do say that to him. Don't play games. Let him know why you feel drawn to him. So this morning I was... So her definition of the dark, masculine man is that like you're horny. And like I always say to my friends, you're, if you feel attracted to a man, let him know. And the reality of it is like, and like I know I'm single. I like, and I've told you like how long I haven't been sexually active. So this approach to men and how I feel with them, I've been practicing for, for decades. Whereas, women are so, have been so busy raising their children and grandchildren. And also like suppressing that horniness or that sexual attraction. There are some things though that I disagree with her when she says like, you know, you'll feel it right away. This last encounter that I had with a fellow, I met him three years ago. And there was an attraction, but it wasn't, it was like an energy that I remembered from like 55 years ago. So that's why I'm trying to say is like a lot of the things she's talking about, those things are like memory, like memory of your sexual activity or sexual thoughts, your holistic collective combination of your sexual experiences come into play when you're attracted or feel something for me as a woman to a man. And it's not spontaneous like she said. Like I know sometimes it feels that way. But again, too, the question of like, why do I feel this way? Again, too, it has to do with trust. Now, even though you're sexually attracted to a man and you feel horny, doesn't mean you're going to respond to him automatically and say, I want to have sex with you. When I was promiscuous, yes, it was spontaneous. (12:56.0) Yet there comes a price. So what is that price like? I think the more you start meeting men who hurt you, the more distrust you have. So three years ago when I was approached by this man, and not in a romantic way, but I know I needed to trust him. And it was just like, you know, I know he was trying to establish trust with me so that we could openly have conversation. And it was from that point that as I started ruminating or like how cow has how many stomachs and they eat and digest in one stomach and it goes to the next stomach to digest. Well, that's part of the whole process of trust for me, an analogy. It sounds sort of gross, but that's what pops up in my mind today. So it's not clear cut as she has put. and that's why I wanted to talk about this podcast because in the discourse that I've had with this man, I had talked with him on March 11th and I did tell him that I had these feelings that had surfaced over the couple of years when I've talked to him about establishing trust with him because in order for me to uncover or Percolate my sexual memories from like 55 years ago. I I had to Logically just shift and say yes I'm gonna surrender if the potential is there to have sex with this man. I'm open to it Now I gave myself permission to do that at an unconscious conscious level which takes a hell of a lot of energy even though this lady on tik-tok is talking about it as if Like it's just going to be spontaneous. No, it's not. that's why I say when you're going with the therapies, be careful. Shop around, especially because it's your life. Those are your memories. This is how you function. Your strategy is totally different than mine. And that's why I say what I'm doing in my podcast is talking about a process. It's not something where you rush into it. There's (15:23.276) the concept of self-love and self-nurturing and self-expression, creating that narrative of what makes you who you are. And a lot of times, like when I went to Las Vegas, I had said to my white friend, I said, each time I didn't let my indigenous female friends know what I was doing and that I was traveling with a white man. And I didn't even let my family know. And then the second time I did let... one of my family members know. I had talked to quite a few women in the city about what was happening with this white man. Again, too, because I had to be very open with him. And that vulnerability of being open and trusting is something that is sexual. We cannot undo it. It's part of our biology. That was like epiphany for me because in talking to him on March 11th, I did say that I was attracted to him, but there was this energy that he held that reminded me of a former lover 55 years ago. And that energy he held, I said I had to, I didn't say to him, I had to visit it, revisit it every time I spoke with him. But I did actively communicate with this white man. And he was listening. I told him that as a man, for him to hold space for me meant a lot, and that in his life, he was going to be experiencing a lot of great things. Which for me, as an older woman who, like I said, Just understanding how to trust Especially when it comes to your own story your own life and whether or not that that man is going to look at you and like say and believe what you're saying Because some men don't trust women either But I mean the reality of it is like this is your journey This is your life and this is what you need to do to move forward so all the time it was (17:47.414) It was completely open. I was completely open with him. Even during the three years that we would interact, the first, I think, year was strategic. And he says, well, I'm in a relationship. And I'd say, of course, I'm just letting you know this is how I communicate. I'm trying to give you as much information about my culture, my environment. things that I experienced around Nathan Chasing Horse. So again, even the masculine person in Nathan Chasing Horse is also part of this topic. There's also the relationship I had with a forensic psychologist for over 30 years. Again, another masculine energy. all this, like these two men, Nathan and, we'll give the other guy's name, Paul. Both Nathan and Paul, like I, like for Nathan it was like, oh he's, you a youth worker, he's got this charisma, and then there's a point of distrust. With Paul it was like, I've known him for decades and he'd always come over and spend like at least four hours just chit chatting with me and sometimes his partner would call and say like, honey, we're having supper, are you coming home? There was no sexual attraction in terms of, well, let me put it this way. Yes, as a woman, there'll always be sexual attraction, but it's the degree or what this woman talks about, the dark masculine man. That is like, for me, like when you're horny and you're in a bar and you make contact and you hook up. Like that's how it sounds to me. So excuse me, that's my opinion. And that's the reason why I'm critiquing this TikTok so I can explain my own sexual story and why I think it's important to shop around for a therapist. And especially as women like to really question your memory and question the safety. So yesterday when I was talking to my white friend, I was saying to her, yeah, I just, you know, I am... (20:10.51) I've never told anybody that I went to Las Vegas. And I said, even to this day, the two of the Indigenous women that I had, like we talked on a daily basis. And then when I came home, I just stopped. My white friend says, Marina, if you did that to me, I would call you up and say, what did I do? And I said to her exactly, I said, if my friendship meant anything to anybody, they would call me up and say, what did I do wrong? One of the ladies came up during the stampede breakfast, brought me my stampede breakfast and says, I'll call you. Again, she hasn't called. The other lady waved at me and I waved back at her, but she hasn't called. So again, I said to my white friend, I'm keeping boundaries because these two women still don't know that I traveled. Las Vegas with a white man and I went to Las Vegas in March and April so both times these women in my community I didn't tell and there were people in the city of Calgary that I did tell like some like other women but it was important for me to keep this confidentiality within my you know like within my First Nations community like I'm not Inuit or Métis so I don't know what it's like to be from those communities, but I do know what it's like to be a woman. So as I'm talking to my right friend yesterday, she says, but Marina, that's like a small town. Word gets around all the time. And she says, I've grown up in a small town. She says, I was always surprised when people would tell me something about myself, which she says, again, I didn't know anybody knew, but a small town, says, word gets around. So in other words, she's trying to tell me, Marina, even though you've kept it secret that you went to Las Vegas once, the white guy, we flew together. The second time I just met him down there. But I told her, said, no, I didn't tell anybody. Said, especially these two women. And my white friend says, Marina, they know. And I said to her, well, even if they did know from, I don't know what source. (22:35.022) Because I didn't tell them and the only family member that I did tell lives in Edmonton. Like for whatever reason they do know, I said to her, well, it's the whole premise like, but I don't know won't hurt me. See, and my keeping my boundaries and not talking to them is like, you know, making sure that the news they have or the gossip they have about me is not going to hurt me. Now that's, that's. the whole thing about lateral violence and misogyny. Even though we tend to think as Indigenous women we're not practicing these things, we do. Like for example, when I'm talking to my cousin about this white man and I made a comment that I'd recently text him and each time I tell her that I've had communications with him, there's always this comeback about like, oh well Marina, like... you're horny for him. Like she says, well Marina, maybe he needs to divorce his partner. And I said to her, don't say that. I said, don't you know you're not supposed to think bad about other people? Like how much more, how much more? Like as a woman thinking bad about another woman who she doesn't even know. As if like, as if that's what I'm thinking or what I'm desiring. And again, I was saying to my white friend, you know, this whole point is this is my life. It's nobody's business. But but no matter what I try to do, the boundaries I put in place, people are still going to be creative and still going to. you know, imagine either the best case scenario or the worst case scenario when it comes to me and my relationship with men. Because my goodness, I'm an oddity. I haven't had partner children. when I say partner, that means I have never lived common law. Okay, so a lot of things that people and women have chose to live, like this lady who's doing her this TikTok. (24:54.477) and how that she's got clients. And again, too, like I could say, oh, you know, call me up and I'll give you some advice. You pay me $300 an hour. You know, like people are hungry for money and they'll, you know, whatever academic life they've had and whatever they can do to help. To me, you know, I like, I'm grateful. I'm grateful they're there. But, I'm. I'm going to play the second one. Now, again, she's talking about dark, masculine men. And for each one of those, I'm going to critique what she means as it pertains to how I've dealt with these things. (25:44.014) So one of my ex-boyfriends who I dated for a little over two years and we're still friends to this day. We talk every single day. That reminds me about Paul. And what drew me to him? It wasn't sexual chemistry. It was... I really liked how responsible... That's Paul. And grounded and stable and steady and hardworking he was. He was a forensic psychologist. was financially responsible. And he wasn't my boyfriend. And I met him at work as well. I like the fact that everybody at work respected him. You he's very well respected. Yes, he was well respected. Like he just, I could just see it. I could feel it. Like this man has strong leadership qualities. And if I were to date him. I knew that I would be able to have a steady, stable relationship with him that could possibly lead to marriage. we did almost. See, and for me, it wasn't dating. It was just having him over, having a conversation, learning things about the psychology of human behavior. We had some really deep discussions, and I felt safe. He knew all about my sexual life. I held nothing back. And again, to... I didn't ask him about his life. This was a time for me just to release my own narrative, like how I'm doing in this podcast. Now, if you choose to date and find such a masculine man, this is what she's talking about, and this is her experience in, we'll call it her healing journey. (27:48.762) Exactly. I had an issue with that, but in terms of his leadership qualities, he was solid and I was very drawn to him for that reason. And I told him that I did. know about the feminine choice paradigm at the time, so I couldn't explain to him in those exact words. But, you know, I did express to him that, you know, I felt like... I liked his stability, I liked his steadiness. I just felt like we could have something really solid together. also... See, I didn't... Like I said, like what she said, that sexual attraction wasn't there. For Paul, though, I believe he had some sexual attraction to me just because of the way he behaved around me. And I think at an unconscious level, I just didn't want to deal with it. I didn't want to... You know, say to him, is your face three inches away from my face when you're trying to look at my phone? Or why do you spend so many hours like this just coming over to talk to me? And making sure, now understand this, he loved it when I didn't have company. He resented if I had somebody here with me, if he stopped by. So that was his issue, not mine. Okay, but again. This lady here is talking about a whole different scenario because this has to do with relationships and marriage and how she treated her children. I don't have children. You know, family members, they immediately loved him. He presented himself well. Like they all wanted me to marry him. My family knew who Paul is. He had king energy through and through. (29:36.98) another type of attraction that you may feel. We hear about this a lot from influencers like Sheera Sevin and others who really encourage women to choose a man primarily because of his ability to financially provide for her above all else. I haven't had that. attractive. That's very attractive. And it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to be your husband. It could mean that. That's very young. Yes, probably. The way that I first got into sex work. I've never been a sex worker. I used to do, I used to be a vendor, I used to sell like natural foods. I was promiscuous when I was younger. this man, kept approaching me and he would always buy a whole bunch of stuff. I mean, when you go into bars, men do that just automatically. Like really, I didn't even care sometimes when I in sexual, when I was younger. We're talking like 50 years ago. And then of course he called me that same evening. He expressed an interest in taking me out on a date. And I wasn't really attracted to him. I didn't feel like going on a date with him. And so I just told him the truth. I said, okay, I'll go on a date with you, but I'm gonna need you to give me some money. And he agreed to do it. He said, okay. Now, when I met men in bars, I didn't say I'll. you know, if they wanted me to go home with them, didn't say it'll cost money. I didn't. just, you know, I thought, well, he wants something, I want something. We're going to share each other's bodies, enjoy each other. And then at the end of the night or however long we were together, that's it. Walk away, never see each other again. So again, we're talking from different life experiences. And I think the majority of Indigenous women that I have talked with (31:57.038) Basically, it's that. One of my relatives had an affair with a married man for 17 years because he bought her things. He bought her things and hardworking, getting her degree, paying mortgage. It was like somebody to help her, not directly raise her children, but just in terms of monetary. I know he was handsome, good looking. Dakota man as well. My goodness, that was a plus. But the reality of it is like it came with like the finance that he was married and never left his wife for her. I'll pay you. So we went on the date. He took me out to dinner and that night there was a very heavy snowstorm so I wasn't able to drive home. He recommended that. stay at his place, I spent the night and then one thing led to another and he paid me a lot of money the next morning and so that was very like pleasing to me. I was like, wow, wow, I like this. Like, this is a turn on to me. I like this. So with him, I wasn't physically attracted to him, but I really liked the fact that he was willing to spend money on me. That felt good to me. So that's see When I was younger, I lived in a university town and there were a lot of young Indigenous women who met, you know, professional Indigenous men who, you know, took them out. Like this is during conferences. Okay. Now, I just want to let you know the National Congress of American Indians have these conferences. And in the 70s, it was in Salt Lake City. And believe me, there were a hell of a lot of educated professional Indigenous men who paid money. to have these young Indigenous women spend a night with them. And, you know, and of course these young women were so impressed with these educated Indigenous men, Native Americans, of course. But for me, it just, I just thought they were being used because again, I'd already had this history, this memory of like, again, you know, we're talking about trust and... (34:22.401) balance. for me, listening to women, there was one young lady who had an internship in Washington DC and her Jewish lover, again when I say lover, I'm not talking about intercourse, she performed fallacia on him and even though they were states away, he would spend 10 hours just talking on the phone, like having a sex on the phone. And she just thought, I'm still a virgin, so it's okay, I can get married in the Mormon temple. I mean, all these twisted narratives being Mormon and, you know, like being sexually free for both men and women, the stories can go on and on. But at the same time, too, when it comes to men paying your way, on March 11th, when this white man came into Calvary, came into my home, we visited the next day, picked me up, went to the airport, flew to Las Vegas, Ubered it to the hotel, paid for my lunch and breakfast and anything I wanted, and we Ubered around, and it was nice. But see, mean, Paul would come and he'd... buy me a few grocery stuffs and drop it off. And it felt nice like that men were paying for something. But there was no, how would I say it? If men do that for women, and they have their partners and they do that on a daily basis, and that's part of the relationship. For me as a single Indigenous woman, I just thought, well, that's pretty nice of... individual and I need to pay them back somehow. So again, trying to find balance in things and again, even when people are doing nice things for me, it's not like, gee, I hope and I wish these Paul and this white man would divorce their partners. No, no. Yet when I talk to my Indigenous friends about any man that I've talked with, have done (36:45.655) things with in terms of just meeting with them. There's always that underlying, you know, issue of like, well, Marina, you want, you want him. I'm going, no, I'm happy just being single and just being able to talk to another human being that is a male. manifestation choice. Another type of attraction is... So again that's the manifestation because of the money. So again here's another part that I hope she's talking about a choice. Again this is a spiritual person that she's talking about in terms of like let's see here First we spoke about the support, then we talked about the manifestation, now we're talking about the crown, which is... his mind. I love his spiritual wisdom. And you can see that when you listen to our podcast episodes, you can see that I really love to pick his brain. I love to ask him questions. I love his answers. we now these three men, okay. Paul, the white guy and Nathan chasing horse. There was like they all had this, you know, like I, it was interesting to talk to them. I love their out Like with Nathan, was like him being a youth worker and using ceremony to heal. Because a lot of times, most of the talk that I had been raised in was to be wary of men like Nathan because they had an agenda. I didn't perceive him as that at the beginning. So of course, I was open to question him. (38:50.19) and ask him about ceremony and even like the fact that he was sharing the traditional songs because he was open to sharing instead of, you know, saying, oh, pay me money to, for me to teach you these knowledgeable things. Okay, so again, even to with the white guy, you know, just his credentials in what he does for living, I can't even comprehend. the people he's been around, because that's not my circle of people. I'm always interested in how men, how they function around other men. And again, like the respect men show each other. So that's part of the conversation that really intrigues me when it comes to what this lady calls the crown choice, because it's like looking into the male perspective. like a voyeur. I mean, it's attractive to look, but again, too, you know, there's this whole trust issue. She doesn't talk about that though. Both of those connections occurring. And so if you're attracted to a man, you want to check in with yourself and determine that why am I attracted to this man? What is it about him that's attracted me to him? Where am I feeling this? Am I feeling this in my groin? in my root chakra? Am I feeling it in my heart chakra? If you are feeling in your heart, then he's probably a support choice. Am I feeling it in my third eye or crown? Am I blown away by his wisdom? Then he's a crown choice. Am I just turned on by the fact that he's willing to spend money on me? Is that what it is? And you can let him know what it is and what it isn't. Now this particular woman, she's on the dating app, so... know with dating apps it's a little bit more difficult to kind of like years ago there was another fellow named Billy he was a Kiowa Indian from Oklahoma and I was able to talk to him and say I feel like I'm in love with you I mean we're standing in the door of the lobby of the hotel and I'm because I'm dropping him off not that not trying to go into his bedroom or anything and I just said you know I I I've (41:16.856) feel like I'm in love with you. I said, I feel this sexual energy, but I know it's not real. Like when she's talking about, feel it. Is it your crown, your heart, your groin, like, you know, all that. Like it's one thing to statistically say, okay, sense, know your body. But when you're in the moment of like, my goodness, I'm so scared. I've got to talk to this man about how I feel. You know, I... I practice doing these things because I was so hurt by women who manipulated trying to get their way in friendship with me. Like I had a roommate who was Polynesian and just didn't have money for rent, but she sure as hell created a narrative about a Polynesian football player who she claimed was attracted to me. And as long as I kept her as a roommate, she would feed into that fantasy. I had to go and talk to him directly to say this woman has been living with me and telling me stories about you and this is what she's saying that you're attracted to me and he says no I'm not. So even though it hurts you to openly talk to a man you have to and like with Billy like the football player his name was Robert. And even though like Billy were standing there and I said no, you know, I feel this because I did feel that way with Robert But I did talk to him and I didn't know sometimes I would use that as Like a what do call a blockage like you're blocking your chakras you're blocking your energy I used Robert to block any sexual urges that I had for any other man I just focus on him so I felt safe that, you know, like, yeah, my roommate filled the fantasy or the void that, you know, that I, again, too, because I wasn't dealing with memory, sexual memory of previous lovers that I had. I was just, you know, just able to just try and keep the status quo. And no matter what my roommate, Lisa, was trying to feed me, I would just pretend. (43:40.751) I know when I talk about pretendings in Native Americans like I like hello It originates it originates someplace But like it takes courage to step out of that comfort zone Because because you're being manipulated by other women for purpose not sexual monetarily like for because because she I don't know why she couldn't get a job. I guess it's like a man when you're You live with a man and he's living off of you. You don't know why they can't get a job. But again, you have to have the courage to, you know, step forward and say, look, I talked to the guy. He's not interested in me. I don't know why you're trying to create this narrative because, you know, we're as roommates, we're all supporting her. It's not like I was a lesbian or attracted to her. It was the allure of the impossible that this man, Robert actually did feel something for me because I mean he asked me to dance and little limerence things that I held onto because I didn't think it was hurting me. And that's the point that I'm trying to make on my podcast. A lot of times we think it's innocent but in the psychological terms, in terms of our own balance, our own healthy human sexuality, we really have to be critical of our own way and why we take on these notions. of love and intimacy. And so even with Billy, his whole genre was unhealthy female Native American, both male and female, have mental health. And so even that being associated with him, I was able to work with other women my age and older who mentally meant in terms of mental wellness had had this limerence, this deep Like it's one thing to be a teenager and every human being goes through infatuation. But there is a tipping point in the balance where the limerence, the infatuation goes into a deeper psychological, we'll say crutch or trauma or something where, you know, it takes professional help to sort of dig your way out of the grave that you dug for yourself. And unless you have support or you understand, you know, your narrative and your story. (46:06.294) and you have a safe place to talk to another human being about how you feel. Like when I say the word horny, that's not a swear word. But for some women, it's really difficult to even say the word penis or clitoris or fuck or rape or trauma. it's, you know, it's amazing or even like ejaculation. I mean, I'm trying to be as civil as I can, but that's... the conversations that I try to have with my Indigenous female friends and it's very difficult. So that's why with my white friend who says, well Marina, they have to know that you went to Las Vegas with a white man. And I said, I am putting boundaries down. you know, what I don't know won't hurt me. And for me, when I live in a community of lateral violence, I do need to keep those boundaries in place so that I don't get hurt. And even like with Billy, my doing all this work, this mental health work, because I was sitting on the board for the Native Women's Emergency Shelter, and even the reality of the mental health of the women who actually were working to get one established, was just at the tip of the iceberg for them because I don't realize, I don't believe that they understood their own mental health journey towards healthy human sexuality. But because I'd been so far apart, like by the time I was the board of directors for the women's shelter, I'd already been not sexually active like what, 20 years. So a lot of the experience I have with feelings to men that I meet or any kind of this, what this lady calls dark, dark masculine man, I've had to trudge my way throughout my life. either, you know, talking, saying my narrative. So even this podcast, this isn't something new. Like, imagine, like, I'm talking to you as if you're an Indigenous woman that I've just met and I'm still, this is who I am. And sometimes it's really difficult for Indigenous women to really listen and even communicate and say, yes, I've gone through this. Because there's a lot of work that needs to be done. (48:32.428) Now why I mention my white friend is because she says, I really hope that before I die that, you know, young girls will, will, you know, get it realized like we, you know, we were responsible to support each other, like in terms of matriarchy. Again, too, that's that in itself is sort of a fallacy because I truly believe historically since the beginning of time. in matriarchal society, you're born into it. Like your mother, your grandmothers, your aunties and all that. Even the men educate you by the time you're five years old that you're in a matriarchal system. Now, hopefully because they robbed that and suppressed it and stole it from us, like when we say land back, you know, we're talking about matriarchy, we're talking about the earth. So a lot of things, it's so abstract and the concept is so foreign to people who have had generations of not living off the land or having community from the time you're born until the time you die, living in indigenous community. Like I mentioned, this tomorrow we're burying a matriarch. She grew up in Siksika, married here in Sutena. Her whole life has been around indigenous people living in... off the land with people that are indigenous, like profound. Like I want people in my audience to understand that. When you make a choice, like you make a choice to get married or have children, you make a choice where to live. If you're an indigenous woman, do you live away from your indigenous community? And if you do, is it because you've been sexually assaulted or been traumatized or you're just... hate being Indigenous or you're ashamed to be Indigenous. For whatever reason, the consequences too are like if you have children, at what point do your children make peace with the decisions you've made to bastardize your own culture? And I'm saying that very bluntly because there are men like Nathan Chasinghorse who've done that and there are women who are misogynistic. (50:49.876) and Machiavellian who are crabs in a pail, the analogy of pulling each other down so you can get to the top. Like that as women, I just don't think it's indigenous. Like I said, my white friend says, it's important that young women start supporting each other. And so that's why, like even for me, when I look at the Sutin of Women who went down to support one of their sisters who was testifying. for one of the victims, a young girl who first came to Sioux Tuna when she was seven years old. And she's 25 now. So these women that went down and the sponsorship with the chief and council helping them is a profound validation of matriarchy. I mean, I have my own issues when it comes to financial stability and just fairness. That's my own pettiness. But the reality of it is, like, I try to explain what support and mental health is, especially when it comes to young women, that it's important that they help. And if you have some mental problem, I don't want to say problem, if you have a notion and not able to question yourself. And she's now dating or beginning to date men. Hold on. Now, this, like I said, part four is the crown. So I wouldn't go into dating apps. I'm like her. (52:43.214) Exactly. Most women I know don't. Not all. Yeah, see, hot passionate sex, that's when I was younger. Most women don't want to be. if you're looking for exclusivity, if you could give a fuck about exclusivity and you're happy to be in a polyamorous relationship, or if you're a swinger, just say what it is. Say what it is that you're into, what you're looking for, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's beautiful and that's healthy and that's how I go about it. And then another choice is... See, that's the reality I've tried to talk about in the past three years. For 30 years, Paul and I were... Like he'd come and we'd visit. Even like I knew Paul before I met Nathan Chasinghorse. So even having discussions about Nathan Chasinghorse with Paul, like it was important. It was important to have that. But I also went to therapy too. And my therapist was a woman. So all these things and deconstructing how women were treating me. See, notion is that it wasn't like I met Nathan Chasing Horse 20 years ago. The reality of my doing my blog and trying to get a message to my niece was because there were a lot of women who were laterally violent towards me as if I was a pedophile myself. And even to this day, I sense it with people, young women in my community towards me, as well as young men. So a lot of my podcasts that I do talk about, I'm talking about that specifically because like for 20 years, like to deconstruct why women would treat me the way they did when it came to this Nathan chasing horse who in this woman, this TikTok is calling the crown or the spiritual person, masculine man. And a lot of masculine men or men who aren't even masculine in the sense of the crown, (55:01.816) pretend to be. So like I say, these are analogies and labels that this woman has put on the dark masculine man, as well as a lot of people who've created books and trying to sell their self-help approach. You really have to shop around. Like I said, my talking to this white man about how I... Originally had to establish trust with him by being open and the only way I could be open was to validate Yes, I could have sex with this man, but you can understand the mental transformation from having a Relationship with Paul to to having a relationship with this white man and and in the background there's 20 years before there's this Nathan chasing horse or there's this Billy or there's this Robert like, like, or, or, and of course the impetus or the creation story is Mike, Mike, who, who, I have constant memory of every day in my life because again, this dark masculine energy that I experienced when I was 18, it, it's something that for me, is the experience or the creativity of my relationship with all men. And in order to have balance and open dialogue with men, I had to visit that relationship. In the past three years, my memory of Mike, I had to pull it out of the cobwebs of my mind. And I had to bring it with every man that I had talked with. Like even the fact that when I was The following year I was brutally sexually assaulted. I had to bring all those memories in to the present because you're dealing with what those rapists were men and and just because they're violent Doesn't mean that all men are violent mind you the most of the most dangerous person a woman will be ever be around in their life is their partner so (57:22.593) This important need to balance and trust has to come with fidelity. I think they say men will kill their partner if she's messing around, cheating. I think too, I've grown up around it my whole life, seeing men beat up their partners. Like I said, anybody could ask me, I know. Like it's terrible. It's terrible. You know, and then as women we die and you know, they have your children and grandchildren and yet the origin, like the origin story, the creation story, for most indigenous women it had to do with infidelity and violence, family violence. And the fact that you had children and you've got to live protecting your children because that's a choice you made. For me, I chose not to have children and I chose not to be in any form of relationship. Mind you, the 10 months before my uncle and a year before my dad passed away, I did make a conscious choice to, but I did say that I was gonna be open if there was a man to come into my life that I wouldn't have hate or disgust or fear in. establishing a relationship. Mind you, that narrative of like a man coming up and saying, oh, you're the most beautiful woman in the world. like, you know, every narrative I've gone through, it's, when you're younger, you know, your prime meat, you know, like, oh my good, you're like the, what do they call Adam and Eve, you're the apple on that tree. You know, that man is willing to take that first bite, but I'm going, no, no, no, cannot do that. (59:25.565) I'm choice, which is like when the man is like a guru, he's super intelligent in a particular fashion and sex. Some women really want money. Some women want a spiritual guru type of guy. You know, so like you have to figure out, like what type of man do I most desire to be with at this time in my life, you know, and, and express that in your dating profile. If, if you're looking for exclusivity, if you could give a fuck about exclusivity and you're happy to be in a polyamorous relationship, or if you're a swinger, like just say what it is, say what it is that you're into, what you're looking for. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's beautiful. And that's, that's, that's healthy. And that's, that's, that's how I go about it. And then another choice is the crown choice, which is like when the man is like a guru. He's super intelligent in a particular era. And we'll talk about it. I came across a real recently. and I just don't even understand this. This is a she calls herself a dark feminine coach. And I just don't understand what she's saying because she's recommended to women that you don't tell him what you're looking for in a man or what it is that you're seeking or desiring. Because if you tell him that he'll play that part he'll act that part in order to deceive you and he'll screw you over or you know He'll get you to sleep with him and then he'll ghost you or whatever like that's very fair-based I don't I don't relate with men from a fair-based perspective that oh he's gonna be toxic or he's gonna lie to me or he's gonna deceive me or he's gonna screw me over so I can't be honest with him I have to withhold information I have to not let him know what I'm looking for or not let him know why I'm attracted to him or I have to deceive and tell him that, you know, every man I've ever been with sees me as a queen or treated me as a queen. And the only reason we're not together is because our values differ. Like, I'm not into playing games with men. Fuck that. I'm not into playing games. I'm into being authentic. I'm into being vulnerable. I'm into speaking my truth. I'm into expressing what it is that I actually feel and what it is that I actually desire. And if he's in agreement with that, then cool. You know, we can have a good time. (01:01:38.817) If he's not, then that's fine. But like this whole inauthenticity and fearing that he's gonna deceive you and screw you over and be a narcissist and all this kind of like, fuck that. Like I don't entertain that shit. That shit is so fucking fear based and gross. And I don't recommend that to my clients at all. You don't wanna be in a fear based state when relating to men. You wanna be open and receptive and honest and vulnerable and authentic. That's the best way to go in my opinion. So I hope that... So like that, when I met Nathan Chasing Horse, I wasn't fear-based. But it was amazing that women tended to feel like this is their choice, like to be part of the cult, drink the Kool-Aid, actually see and witness his interaction with girls and boys. Like it's really sickening that there were men who still follow him to this day, who are protected by the FBI or whoever, that it's all fear-based and to have control over the most vulnerable, especially when it comes to sexual energy. Like I said earlier, even to the point where this Nathan didn't care who he had sex with, men, women, but mostly his propensity was for children, both boys and girls as young as seven and eight years old. Like for me to openly talk to a woman and say to her, yes my niece who I took care of for seven years, talking to her about what Nathan did to her, like in terms of ceremony how he'd hit her on the head with a rattle. like to have them fear, like in a dark room, like the boogeyman, like they'd get scared. And the lady said, that's what he did to my daughter. And that's what he did to the seven-year-old girl whose mother. (01:03:43.073) I mean, when they did the impact statement, you can see it on YouTube. She says, I tried to kill myself three times. This is a woman who's been in this state of flux for 20 years, the state of fear based. And that's why I say when it comes to limerence. It's important to find a therapist that can help you navigate through this. Because it looks and you rationalize like it's infatuation when really it isn't. You've given this limerence power, this fear power. You've given this limerence a place of safety because as long as you're fantasizing and have this delusion, you don't really have to feel love. You don't really have to talk to a man about how you love him. You don't have to say, it's something that I felt. And for me, I've been practicing. And this last time in my practice, it was revolutionary in the sense that I was open to be sexually active with this man. And for me, one of my friends says, well Marina, you're looking from a small community. They have to know. And I said, well, what I don't know doesn't hurt me. So in my podcast, like what I'm saying to you is, you know, what I disclose to you is a way of you trying to understand your own sexuality, your own propensity to heal yourself. But it takes a hell of a lot of courage. I've met so many women my age, 10 years younger, like even just having this misogyny, like this lateral violence. (01:05:38.431) If you knew, like my friend Barbara, when I went to court, she says, Marina, once you've done this, you'll wonder why didn't I do this before? And when I did a prayer for this young woman who almost died from a tubal pregnancy, young woman, I said, you're young. I said, in my life, I waited. You've taken on this and you're doing this. You're standing there being brave and knowing that you have the courage to confront a man and to tell that man he hurt you. The whole notion of misogyny and lateral violence of women to other women keeps that perpetual motion of limerence alive and well. And to live in that illusion or delusion for decades without even questioning it. So when I go to elders, other elders that I've grown up with and they're talking to young people and I see them and I hear them gaslighting, manipulating, I hear misogyny, I hear... just in their voice, their attitude, because they just think it's normal. They've normalized lateral violence. They've normalized misogyny. They've normalized gaslighting. And it's the same thing, what I talk about in my podcast is normalizing limerence. So that's why I say when you're trying to heal, Yes, it's going to be like this lady said, you can run by fear base and distrust because yes, men will take these things and same with women. There's this energy, they consume it because that's all it is. (01:07:31.63) Energy is out there to be nurtured and bloom and flourish and, you know, just be alive. And I truly believe, like even when I had to dig those memories from 55 years ago with Mike, beautiful memories. And... And again, too, there's no webs or quicksand or anything trying to attach to me to bring me down into the mire, the mud or the guck. Because again, I chose a different life path. I've never been in a relationship with any man who's cheated on me. I've never been with a man in a relationship who's beaten me, manipulated me, has used my money or I've used him. No, I try to give back when somebody gives me something. And for the white man who came with me to Las Vegas, I gave him a lighter, a simple lighter. But yet it's the work that I had to do to like the gifts of the star blankets, like all that I had to pay back, not just spiritual, but I had to pay back monetarily. And it took like a month. And even now, this is like going on to the end of July, I finally have paid most of my debt in going to Las Vegas. Like I said, my whole life I've lived my own, on my own. paid my way through in the states, in another country, paid for my own education. I've worked hard. (01:09:14.602) So when I have discussions with Indigenous women who sort of poo poo on me, that I, like there's something, they're trying to tell me, this white man you went with, yes, he brought his partner in April. Marina, you I know you wish that he didn't. I know, you know, you want to be with him. I know that, you know, you're just, it would be best, why don't you just tell him to divorce his wife. Like, come on! That's what I'm saying. At what point this woman who's telling me this had an affair with a married man for 17 years and she's saying this about this white man. When I'm trying to say to her, you just don't speak bad of other people. It was a Lakota man who served in Vietnam. He'd come and visit me, and we were talking about hung prayers. And then I talked to my Cree friend in Edmonton, and I talked to her about hung prayers. And there's this balance where we ourselves as individuals pray bad things for ourselves because we have low self-esteem. And the more we attack ourselves, the heavier the part of the balance on the seesaw goes against us. Again, too, environmentally in how we interact with other people. If somebody doesn't like us and they're praying bad for us, or we have the capacity to pray bad for another person, that in itself tips the teeter-totter. So in either case, you don't want to say anything bad about somebody who's hurt you. You don't want to say something bad about yourself to hurt yourself. You want to have that balance, that equilibrium. And it's the same thing (01:11:23.156) with healthy human sexuality you want to have that but the only way you could do that is the public self and the private self have to be in balance have to be in sync and no matter how much you want that it has to it comes with boundaries it comes with with memory and to have the courage to bring those memories forward to help you see yourself in a good way. That you're not praying bad for yourself. At the same time, putting boundaries down so that people who say, know, he should divorce his wife. Like I'm saying, you're praying bad for his wife. Don't do that. Little things in terms of lateral violence and environmental ways of thinking about people wishing someone would die, for example, that's praying bad for them. Now, we're not all perfect and we all have enemies. And so that's why I say protect yourself on a daily basis. you know, embrace yourself with protective, reflective, healing energy, as well as release it. Because for me, having a white friend, a white man as a friend, who I'm sexually attracted to, is a constant. When he's in my mind, it's embracing him and at the same time releasing him. Because in order to do that, I'm learning. I'm doing this to learn about myself and I'm putting it out there so whatever is happening in his life that there are no hung prayers coming from me either consciously or unconsciously. (01:13:14.796) Now that might be a hard concept to understand in a holistic collective sense, but like I said, you need to be born into it. again, if you're not, but you practice it, it's important to find people you trust. And again, even if they just help you in some little way, like this lady on TikTok. She's helped me to express things that I've been trying to express on my podcast Because she's selling a service of helping women But that's her perspective and there's a lot of things I disagree with her But there's a lot of things that are so abstract that like I that they're common experiences for all human beings the reality of it is though there that that ability to pull that sexual history from the very subconscious or unconscious part of you if you're being able to open up to the individual who sexually arouses you. Those things are impactful because we're human beings. We can't turn it off. So how do we adapt in a mentally healthy way? I've tried to educate and I try to do this like I was talking to my white friend. I said this is why I do my podcast. So that young women, Indigenous young women will help to support each other. Especially when the people out there are targeting 14 year old children to be trafficked. And the amount of immigrants that come into Canada that are hunting not just immigrants, but even white men who are hunting our children for sexual pleasure and sexual gain. When I ran away at 17 and I turned 18 in Vancouver, it was an eye-opener for me how sexually available men thought I was. And of course I was, but I didn't realize that (01:15:33.112) This is just the way men are. Again, a lot of things, I do really believe that there's institutional ways of how men manipulate and control women. And like for Indigenous women, it's colonization. For I think white women, it's more of like, we'll call it politics. I found out the name of the website that these Republicans go to. in each of these towns, cities where they beat up poor conferences is called Grindr. Yeah, it's an application that shuts down because there so many men hooking up with other men. And I know the criticism about Muslims too is like what they, just the way they behave in terms of sexuality with other men and how they discredit women as not being their equal. when in fact like heterosexual men in the Americas do the same thing. But it's done under the guise or the umbrella of patriarchy. And I think a lot of white women or women who are not of colour are realising now that they're older and no more sexually attractive to like when you're growing up and you're desirable. you have that privilege. But being a woman of colour, we've never really had that privilege because there's always a price that men are willing to pay for our sexuality. A price to be paid to control us. And that's historical. I was born into it. But I am using my podcast to deconstruct it, to rebuild and have the courage to understand why it's so important to face (01:17:36.076) the man or woman who's hurt you. Confront them and realize and empower yourself to know that you're not afraid. By doing that, you're dismantling misogyny, lateral violence, gaslighting, whatever behavior you've incorporated into your everyday living to survive. That's not your fault. But when you start laterally violating other women because of the pain and the fear you carry, then it's on you. So for women, some women, most older women that I've talked to are totally oblivious to what I say. And that's why I chose not to tell anybody I was going down to Las Vegas, because it's none of their business. Because how many years have they known me and still don't get it? And I'll be blue in the face and six feet underground and they still won't get it. But for the younger women out there who have experienced exactly the type of lifestyle I've had and the realization that it's important to deal with your mental health at a very young age because the opportunity to share your wisdom, you become a young elder. And in becoming a young elder, you have the capacity and the equipment to raise healthy children or to even raise a healthy community. So in my community, like I said, There are a group of young women who've taken on this challenge. I know I don't talk to them as much, and that's okay because I'm watching. And because of that, I try to do my podcast to let people know, you know, I'm encouraging support groups of young Indigenous women helping each other. (01:19:36.979) Because the older we get it's very difficult to do that without casting judgments on like whether or not You can be trusted if you're gonna be cheating with their husbands Like all that fear-based notion I've grown up with in terms of lateral violence because I chose to be single I Like I constantly say I never thought I was a beautiful indigenous woman because I was looking at myself in terms of white ideologies. Now that I'm an elder and I look back at my pictures as a youth, I'm going, okay, I was beautiful. No wonder why Mike was attracted to me. Like I think about these handsome men that were attracted to me and I thought it was just to control me, but really there was an attraction. They actually were physically attracted to me. And as an elder, like to... Jokingly talk about it. It's like like my white friend says Marina. You're like my older sister when you laugh You know, you're you're afraid to to see the truth and and it's it's really difficult especially when you have feelings for for Like when you when you meet a man that you're attracted to it is difficult it is difficult and and I'm just grateful for the experience that I was able to do what I did and the fact that this white man had the capacity to be compassionate and understanding. Even though when you look at him, you don't even think that he's capable of it. I know he's protected himself his whole life, but for good reason. I'm pretty sure when he was growing up and he saw and heard all about mass shootings and digging mass graves in the country he came from. But again, you know, this is what life is. And hopefully some insight that I've given and I continue to give on my podcast does help you out there. And I will continue to do my podcast to the best of my ability. So with that, like I said, it's July 15th. And I'm just grateful for the friendships I have, for the acquaintances I have. (01:22:02.098) and for the legacy I leave behind. Even though I don't know when Creator will call me home, I'm just grateful that there's such a thing as social media.